jmignot wrote:

I have the feeling that trying to study the readings AND the kanji at the same time defeats the process of mental association that would normally take place with a language using a phonetic writing system.

If I understand this sentence correctly are you trying to study the readings as well as do RTK1 at the same time? This is definitely not recommended since as you say there is too much unknown material for your mind to grasp sufficiently.

If you're just referring to studying the readings through new vocab that you are don't already know then yeah I do find it challenging. However, I find that that when the identical reading problem kicks in my mind somewhat subconsciously checks the meaning of the kanji and is able to interpolate the vocab from there. I'm pretty sure that as I have the words further ingrained into my head that extra check will fade away.

Edit: I wanted to add that I've seen this problem tackled fairly successfully by using a known compound with the target kanji as a means to solidify the reading. So by picking a word containing that kanji that you already know (hopefully one might exist, not always though) you can use that compound as a stepping stone to the new vocab you are learning.

Last edited by chameleoncoder (2010 January 27, 3:45 pm)

I realize that my question was not quite clear. I was not talking about RTK 1. Admittedly I have not yet finished it (I am now around 1100 or so), but whether this is good or not I leave to another thread.
What I am trying to do is to learn vocabulary in a systematic way by studying smart.fm "core 2000" in Anki. The difficulties I was referring to occur even when the word consists of kanji I already know from RTK — by "know", I mean the keyword, not the reading: I bought RTK II some time ago, but I am convinced that it is not for me. Too boring really: my motivation would not survive !
So, the situation is as follows : I am presented with a new word that I am supposed to memorize. I know the 2 kanji (i.e. their keywords). The combination of their individual meanings may, or may not, give a good hint to the meaning of the word as a whole. The ON readings are new for me. Making an effort, I store all the information into my short-term memory (or hope to do so). Then I proceed to another word. After some time, I have a lot of "kai" or "kou", or whatever, words in my brain but, at the same time, I am supposed to remember that each one is written with a different kanji. This, I believe, considerably weakens the memorization process. At least in my case, I can see that the results are quite frustrating.
I started to think that perhaps I should first make sure to learn the meanings and readings, and only when this is achieved and the words sound reasonably familiar should I  attempt to learn their writing in kanji.
This is where  would like to know other people's experience, and also on the difference I observed between kango and yamato kotoba as far as memorization is concerned.

I think I understand now what you are saying. Even though you may remember the vocab word and the readings of the individual kanji you have difficulty remembering which "kou" or "ka" kanji to use when writing a word.

I personally feel you shouldn't spend much, if any time at all on that problem. A person's reading vocabulary is almost always larger than their written and spoken vocabulary. As a matter of course your mind will slowly pick up the "spellings" of the words the more you read them and study your material. Over time you just start to "know" that a compound is written using this particular "ka" because you have been exposed to it time and time again. Spending effort on trying to learn it at the start seems like a waste of time unless you have an urgent need to begin writing japanese novels, since without it you are still fully able to read and understand texts.

It sounds like a case of the man chasing two goals and gaining neither.. Focus on the kanji first and get them done, then move on and you can focus completely on sentence and vocab acquisition.

As for the question at hand, the way I do it is I just take sentences and learn words from the sentences. I learn words in the context of sentences because it makes more sense to do it that way: we are not trying to learn the periodic table [facts], we are trying to learn a living language [interacting elements in changing structures] Learning vocab from sentences also allows me to read aloud the sentences and know I am reading real Japanese phrases I will definitely hear/use in the future, rather than just saying random words like some unfeeling japanese robot machine lol. Context also allows me to guess at what words might be in cases where I know what most of the sentence says, and helps me to remember things much, MUCH easier. An easy example: Mary had a little ____. I bet you can complete that phrase Good luck, you can do it!

Last edited by aberu (2010 January 28, 10:43 pm)