～の時 vs. ～のころ

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Reply #1 - 2010 January 25, 9:55 pm
NyahK New member
From: Japan Registered: 2009-10-28 Posts: 9

I find myself a bit confused as to what the difference is between these two.  Are they interchangeable or are there specific situations when one should be used over the other?

An easy-to-follow explanation with examples would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Reply #2 - 2010 January 26, 12:33 am
sethg Member
From: m Registered: 2008-11-07 Posts: 505

Just a quick general answer as I see it: 時 is at the time of and ころ is around the time of. One is more specific. A little googling can show you when one is more appropriate than the other, though. smile

Reply #3 - 2010 January 26, 10:50 am
vix86 Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2010-01-19 Posts: 1469

Wow, I'm surprised there hasn't been another reply to this. I was going to reply to this earlier but figured someone with little more experience would add a better reply. Hasn't happened yet it seems.

sethg has the jist of it but I'll add a little on to this.

In general I see の時 used in situations to refer to a specific time (think abstract). So you might see it used in situations like 「子供の時」 to mean "When [you] were a child." 「高校生の時」　to mean "When you were a high school student. のころ・ごろ gets used when you are referring to a specific time , like 月曜日のころ, "Around monday" or maybe　６時のごろ "When it was/Around 6 o'clock."

Least this is the way I understand it. Maybe someone will give a better break down on it.

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Reply #4 - 2010 January 26, 11:04 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

That would be ６時ごろ, not 6時のごろ.  ごろ used as approximate time is a little different from ころ; in my experience, 時 is more common and ころ is mostly used in certain fixed phrases like 子供のころ or そのころ.  I don't think there's any large difference between them, and 子供のとき or そのとき are fine as well.

Reply #5 - 2010 January 26, 8:03 pm
NyahK New member
From: Japan Registered: 2009-10-28 Posts: 9

Thank you for your replies.  Is ころ usually written in hiragana or kanji (頃)?

Anyway, would the following basically be the same?

子供の時 vs. 子供の頃
16歳の時 vs. 16歳の頃
etc.

From what I gather, その時 seems much more common than その頃.  Is that correct?

Also, if I wanted to say "at first," I would need to use 初めの頃 and not 初めの時, right?

Reply #6 - 2010 January 26, 8:16 pm
Blank Member
From: California Registered: 2009-07-30 Posts: 104

yudantaiteki wrote:

ごろ used as approximate time is a little different from ころ

I always thought ころ and ごろ had the same meaning (or maybe ごろ being like a suffix version of ころ), but is there some subtle difference? Or did you mean to type 時 for one of these?

Reply #7 - 2010 January 26, 8:25 pm
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

初めの時 is just fine.

ころ and 頃 are both relatively common.

6時ごろ means "about 6", but you can't really say 6時のころ.  So they are slightly different in meaning, or perhaps just usage.

Reply #8 - 2010 January 28, 2:25 am
Mesqueeb Member
From: Japan Registered: 2008-10-14 Posts: 253 Website

NyahK wrote:

Also, if I wanted to say "at first," I would need to use 初めの頃 and not 初めの時, right?

I've never heard 初めの頃...  Something that seems better to me:
「最初は」or 「最初に」

Reply #9 - 2010 January 28, 9:05 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

Yes, I should have pointed out that 初めの頃, while grammatical and natural, is not the most common way to say "At first".  Mesqueeb's suggestions are better.  (初めの頃 gets 3million google hits, but seems specific in use.)

Last edited by yudantaiteki (2010 January 28, 9:05 am)

Reply #10 - 2010 January 29, 8:48 am
merlin.codex Member
Registered: 2010-01-17 Posts: 141

Firstly, 「７時ごろ」's 「ごろ」 is the same as the 「～のころ」 one. Just think about the kanji → 「頃」, and you'll see that I'm right.

Secondly, 「ころ」's meaning is something like "about", "around", etc... (depending on the sentence's preceding structure), and people usually use it to refer to some sort of experience regarding themselves, others, or the environment, whereas 「～の時」's usage slightly broader. Well, there are, of course, some exceptions.

Good luck.

Last edited by merlin.codex (2010 January 30, 7:31 am)

Reply #11 - 2010 January 29, 3:51 pm
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

merlin.codex wrote:

Firstly, 「７時ごろ」's 「ごろ」 is the same as the 「～のころ」 one. Just think about the kanji → 「頃」, and you'll see that I'm right.

While that's true (and you don't need kanji to show it), they are not interchangeable.  You don't say 7時のころ or 子供ごろ.

Reply #12 - 2010 January 30, 7:31 am
merlin.codex Member
Registered: 2010-01-17 Posts: 141

yudantaiteki wrote:

merlin.codex wrote:

Firstly, 「７時ごろ」's 「ごろ」 is the same as the 「～のころ」 one. Just think about the kanji → 「頃」, and you'll see that I'm right.

While that's true (and you don't need kanji to show it), they are not interchangeable.  You don't say 7時のころ or 子供ごろ.

It still doesn't change the fact that you were wrong, when you said that they were totally different. Reread the text (mine) you already quoted...

I merely pointed out your mistake. You aren't going to become better, if you keep whining at people who correct you. Keep that in mind.

Reply #13 - 2010 January 30, 8:27 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

merlin.codex wrote:

It still doesn't change the fact that you were wrong, when you said that they were totally different.

If you can find and quote the place where I said they were "totally different", then I would gladly admit I was wrong.

Reply #14 - 2010 January 31, 5:34 am
NyahK New member
From: Japan Registered: 2009-10-28 Posts: 9

Yes, 最初 is used often, but 初めの頃 is used as well (I have verified this with a couple of people).

Anyway, thanks for the responses.  Seems there is no concrete explanation, though, as everyone seems to have a different opinion on the matter.

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