JLPT2 grammar question

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Reply #1 - 2009 December 02, 9:15 am
jonjimbo2000 Member
Registered: 2007-03-21 Posts: 55

It's getting late and maybe my brain is not working . . .

In the 完全マスター２級　grammar book point there is this question.

この団体は国際交流を目的 （　　　） 団体です。
a. になった　　b. として　　c. になって　　d.　とした

The answer is d.　とした and it relates to point 132 ~を~として　/　~を~とする　/　~を~とした　which I'm not really too sure about.

My main question is why is the answer とした and not として.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by jonjimbo2000 (2009 December 02, 4:42 pm)

Reply #2 - 2009 December 02, 9:55 am
Ryuujin27 Member
Registered: 2006-12-14 Posts: 824

I believe it has to do with the fact that the とした would be modifying the noun (団体) after it. Someone else could probably give a more detailed explanation, but make sure to always note how a grammar form is used when you learn it, and what it couples with.

Reply #3 - 2009 December 02, 10:00 am
pm215 Member
From: UK Registered: 2008-01-26 Posts: 1354

This is one of those questions that's trying to check that you know the right form to use. Basically if you're modifying a noun (here 団体) you want とした or とする, but if it's modifying the whole sentence (if you see what I mean) then it links together with として.
(you'll find that there are a number of bits of grammar listed in Kanzen Master which have として and とした/とする forms, so hopefully if you look at the examples you'll get the distinction.)

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Reply #4 - 2009 December 02, 2:59 pm
vosmiura Member
From: SF Bay Area Registered: 2006-08-24 Posts: 1085

As the others said when the structure is modifying a noun the plain form is used (とした or とする).  If it's not modifying a noun you use the て form (or in some structures masu stem form).  There are several structures that follow the same pattern.

完全マスター doesn't really mention it I think so you have to figure out from examples, but I have to say I never figured out the distinction from 完全マスター, until I went through the ASK book (日本語総まとめ問題集 [2級文法編]) as it does list things like this, as well as just generally having more descriptions of the meaning in each use case.

Last edited by vosmiura (2009 December 02, 8:24 pm)

Reply #5 - 2009 December 02, 3:16 pm
pm215 Member
From: UK Registered: 2008-01-26 Posts: 1354

Yes, KM isn't really intended to teach you the grammar -- it is very obviously aimed at getting you to pass the JLPT. So the explanations are usually very minimal and sometimes miss out important stuff. I think it works best as a handy summary and set of example sentences for the key things you need to learn for the JLPT, but you should use some other better grammar reference (or textbook) to look up details.

(PS: 完全, though I assume that was just a typo.)

Reply #6 - 2009 December 02, 4:23 pm
Ryuujin27 Member
Registered: 2006-12-14 Posts: 824

I'd recommend the Unicom ２級 books. The grammar book will take you through all the grammar points, giving other ways to express them (as explanations), plenty of example sentence (usually 3 per grammar point) as well as usage (as in use this with N + N, or verb stem, etc).

Very useful.

Reply #7 - 2009 December 02, 4:46 pm
jonjimbo2000 Member
Registered: 2007-03-21 Posts: 55

Yeah I meant 完全 - it was late.

Thanks for the replies - I will look into it in more detail later to see if I can get my head around it.

Reply #8 - 2009 December 02, 6:01 pm
jonjimbo2000 Member
Registered: 2007-03-21 Posts: 55

I managed to get the relevant page  of (日本語総まとめ問題集 [2級文法編]) on Google Books which helped to clear things up for me.

I think my problem is that I don't really have a basic understanding of a lot of grammar points. I understand the meaing but don't know which forms to use. Anyway that's something I will have to think about after Sunday.

I guess I will just go for c for all the grammar questions!!!

Again thanks for the replies - very useful.

Reply #9 - 2009 December 03, 5:08 pm
pm215 Member
From: UK Registered: 2008-01-26 Posts: 1354

jonjimbo2000 wrote:

I think my problem is that I don't really have a basic understanding of a lot of grammar points. I understand the meaing but don't know which forms to use.

This is a bit unfortunate because the JLPT setters do like to throw in questions which require you to know fiddly details of the forms. I think it's their attempt to compensate for the fact that they're not actually asking you to do any output (ie writing)...

Good luck, anyway.

Last edited by pm215 (2009 December 03, 5:09 pm)

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