Currently, I do Core2000 listening comprehension (no answer) and read-aloud with a very low leech threshold; I think it's 6 wrong answers.  After I finish that, I'll reset my leeches, raise the threshold, and turn my listening comprehension into transcription.  If it ends up taking too much time, I'll put a limit on how much time I spend transcribing.  For example: first 10 minutes of review per day: full transcription; next 10, hardest characters only; remainder, no transcription.

Native sentences currently come from whatever I'm reading and dic.yahoo.co.jp (which also has bilingual sentences).  I'm not too worried about finding sentences while I'm still learning new ones from Core2000, but if I see something cool, I'll pick it.

I've decided that Core2000 are my last bilingual sentences.  They only need to get you to the point where you can understand some, not all, native sentences.  I'm only half-way through, and I run across easy, i+1, monolingual sentences all the time now. 

Afterwards, I'll set a goal for native sentences per day.  Maybe I'll do monolingual Core6000 as well.  Not sure yet.

Last edited by wildweathel (2009 November 22, 11:40 am)

I just thought of a question that I found strange not to have asked before. Since ive just started out on this journey i want some success stories . Has anyone who has followed this method seen any results. I expect that after 8-12months of this going hardcore i should have reached a fairly reasonable level of fluency and should be nit picking words i have not seen before.

Please don't give me khatzumoto as evidence for the efficacy of this method. I want to see if other people besides him have had good results?

Its strange that i haven't looked into success stories... Hopefully you guys can help fix this

I myself am against the sort of "I'm gonna totally master Japanese in such and such a timeframe!" bravado that too has the subtext "because otherwise I'm a failure."  The approach I take is "success or failure, I'm going to be stubborn, keep advancing, and suck all the enjoyment I can out of this task that I possibly can."

I could be totally wrong, but I think that sort of mulishness is more important than technique.  That's not to say you should accept boredom or inefficiency--if you notice those things, destroy them.  But, without mulishness, without "show up, do it" I'm sure you won't go anywhere, no matter how funny the TV shows, engrossing the literature, or expensive the classes.

So, if you're looking for success stories, you're not in the right place to actually grow towards success.  Time spent thinking about other people's success is wasted.  Time thinking about your own success is probably wasted, too.   Just do it, day by day.  Be stubborn, have fun, let that be enough.  You can't choose to have a high level of skill--so don't worry about it.  You can only choose to be in the right situation, doing the right thing to improve that skill.

After five and a half months, I've found some success.  My pronunciation is much better.  I've finished RTK1 and started RTK3 and Core2000.  Word order doesn't bother me.  When I can understand something in Japanese, it's easier to do so than try to translate it.  I have the occasional thought in Japanese. 

But, more noticeable are the failures I've run into.  I used to not understand anything.  Now, understanding snatches highlights just how much I don't.  I used to not be aware of the Japanese-language Web, now it makes me feel illiterate.  I used to understand my computer's UI, now I don't.

Now that I'm on the mountain and really climbing, the trail is hard and the end isn't in sight.  I have a belief that language acquisition leads to proficiency, just as I have a belief that summit trails actually lead to the summit.  Maybe this isn't the best analogy, because I'm pretty sure there isn't a point when the scenery opens up and  angels descend to the sound of trumpets unfurling a banner that reads "You are now fluent."

Not that that's exactly what happens when you reach a summit... anyway...

I have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. 

I'm not sure if this is encouraging or discouraging.  I think I've captured some of the truth of what language study is like, but I'm sure it's not the whole thing.  By all means study hard if your spirit moves you--but do not sacrifice sustainability or the quiet joy that can always be found at your current level.

(and, that's enough English for today)

wildweathel & nukemarine:

thanks for your insightful and helpful comments. I just wanted to check that i was on the right track. It's just that i have never seen anyone that has used the sentence mining method and succeeded. And i ran into a little opposition to the method at the how-to-learn-any-language.com forums.

There are just so many different methods. And i wanted to make sure that i had picked the perfect one that gives a good value for time invested. And one that produces native-esque fluency.

mastermx wrote:

wildweathel & nukemarine:

thanks for your insightful and helpful comments. I just wanted to check that i was on the right track. It's just that i have never seen anyone that has used the sentence mining method and succeeded. And i ran into a little opposition to the method at the how-to-learn-any-language.com forums.

There are just so many different methods. And i wanted to make sure that i had picked the perfect one that gives a good value for time invested. And one that produces native-esque fluency.

Well, I also do the "sentence method" Although, I only really spend about 1 hour SRS'ing everyday. I'm been doing this for almost 19 months now, but did I succeed? That's a hard question to answer. I can read pretty much anything(Psychology, Physics, Business, etc). If people ask me if I'm fluent, I say no(Though in some ways I am already ).

Now, whether the sentence method was the magical tool is a different story. I'm where I'm at because I read Japanese so much, too much actually. I'm talking about at least 5 hours a day.

You know what the best method is:
1) Always read out loud. The more senses you use the better. When you read out lead, you are speaking in Japanese, listening to Japanese and reading in Japanese. It can't get any better than that.

2) Learn things for the long term. Put things in your SRS and go. Even if you forgert things, who cares! In the long term, you will know it eventually.

3)Stop relying on English. If you want to look up a recipe, then look it up in Japanese

4)Stimulate your sense. It's kind of similar to 1). I'm not sure whether you are a guy or not but if you are try to go read about nampa. If you want, I can send you a pdf.
Well, just read anything that stimulates your senses. How about a sex book in Japanese lol? I'm not joking btw.

5) Have a purpose!
Don't learn Japanese. From the start, use Japanese to learn something. Make it your goal to learn something like Psychology or whatever. In this way, learning Japanese becomes a byproduct of learning Psychology(because you read it in Japanese). Of course, in the beginning you are at zero. So, it's best to work on your fundamentals for a bit and then start your journey.

mastermx wrote:

And i ran into a little opposition to the method at the how-to-learn-any-language.com forums.

Bunch of monolingual blowhards.  The sooner you ignore them, the better.

Okay, maybe that's a little harsh.  There's some good stuff there, you just have to wade through lots of hot air to get to it.  Personally, I don't find it worth my time: it's better to watch an episode of 電脳コイル or do some Anki reviews.

There are just so many different methods. And i wanted to make sure that i had picked the perfect one that gives a good value for time invested. And one that produces native-esque fluency.

As the saying goes, don't let "perfect" be the enemy of good.  If you try to be perfect before you start, well, you'll never start.  Instead, just try something.  If it fails, try to get an understanding of why.

But, I think you'll find that good enough is good enough.  For example, Khatzumoto discourages pre-mined sentences and bilingual word pairs (e.g. 魚 = fish).  I've used word pairs to get to an upper-intermediate level in Esperanto without sentences at all.

(Jes, antaŭ vi demandus, mi povas min esprimi kaj legi tekstojn plejparte kaj uzi eo-eo vortarojn.  Nec mi "malflue" (kiel diritas) parolas, sed ne perfektas. -- Yes, before you should ask, I can express myself, read texts for the most part, and use Esperanto-Esperanto dictionaries.  Neither am I what you'd call "unfluent," though I'm not perfect either.)

Doing that has given me a real perspective on the possibilities and limits of that method.  The same is true of me using the Core 2000 pre-mined sentences.  I don't think I can accurately convey the pros and cons of those methods.  I think you should try them yourself and see what works.

Above all, do something even if it's just for 10 minutes a day.  Often good-enough is good enough, and if not, you'll have your own failures to draw upon--not just the opinions of some strangers online with big egos.