dbh2ppa
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-05-05
Posts: 120
I've come to notice that はい and いいえ can't be translated as "yes" and "no", given that they behave differently with negatively-phrased questions, say for example:
(do forgive me if the following phrases are wrong, my productions skills are still non-existent)
A:食べたいの？
B:はい。
A:食べたくないの？
B:いいえ。
In both cases, B is saying that she does indeed want to eat. If we were to translate いいえ as "no" we'd end up with
A: Don't you want to eat?
B: No.
Which doesn't correctly encode the meaning in the japanese phrase. (I think...)
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Given that the above were correct (I have nothing telling me it is so, only some observations), is the same correct for うん and ううん?
Is answering うん to a negatively-phrased question the same as answering "No" in english?
Is answering ううん to a negatively-phrased question the same as answering "Yes" in english?
chamcham
Member
Registered: 2005-11-11
Posts: 1444
Japanese is often less about meaning (as in English) and more about function.
So instead of thinking about the meaning of a word, you should think about
its function and what situations they use it in.
For example,
you can think of はい and いいえ as meaning the following:
はい = I confirm that what you just said is correct
いいえ = I confirm that what you just said is not correct
If you think of it like this, then it works with negative and positive sentences.
More precisely...
A:食べたいの？
B:はい。
means "I confirm that your previous statement ('食べたいの？') is CORRECT".
A:食べたくないの？
B:いいえ。
means "I confirm that your previous statement ('食べたくないの？') is INCORRECT"
dbh2ppa wrote:
Given that the above were correct (I have nothing telling me it is so, only some observations), is the same correct for うん and ううん?
Is answering うん to a negatively-phrased question the same as answering "No" in english?
Is answering ううん to a negatively-phrased question the same as answering "Yes" in english?
chamcham gave an excellent explanation regarding はい vs いえ. You can think of うん（はい） and いえ（ううん） in the same manner, but they have a slightly difference nuance. Don't think of those two words as pairs; they have different functions.
うん is a casual way of agreeing with what the listener said, or going along with the flow of the conversation.
ううん is a passive way of disagreeing. Japanese are very indirect, and you'll never hear somebody directly tell you "no". Think of of what you'd say in English if you were being honest, and a girl asks if her fat friend with a missing eye and a shaved head is cute. She's her friend, so if she asks "so you think she's cute, yeah?". You can't tell her "Hell no she isn't cute", but you don't want to lie either. So you same something like "uh.. yeah.. well...".
Think of ううん in the same light.
Jarvik7
Member
From: 名古屋
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 3946
Errr no. ううん is not indirect, it flatout means no in a colloquial manner (same as うん is a colloquial yes). You are probably thinking of what is pronounced う〜ん or んんん without the pitch change on the う, which is just a hesitation to answer or a delay while the speaker thinks of what to say.
Last edited by Jarvik7 (2009 November 15, 3:31 am)
Jarvik7 wrote:
Errr no. ううん is not indirect, it flatout means no in a colloquial manner (same as うん is a colloquial yes). You are probably thinking of what is pronounced う〜ん or んんん without the pitch change on the う, which is just a hesitation to answer or a delay while the speaker thinks of what to say.
Yeah, that 
. Thanks for the correction. Funny how I've been missing out on the ううん thing all these years! I don't hear it used in these neck of the woods.
I usually hear う~ん followed up with anything but an affirmation to what I previously asked/stated.
JimmySeal wrote:
There are plenty of aspects of their culture/language that are extremely blunt from a western perspective.
Of course there are plenty of direct phrases in the language, but as a whole they are used less seldom than they would be in English.
Last edited by samesong (2009 November 16, 2:48 am)
liosama
Member
From: sydney
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 896
No, the string of adjectives are meant to all combine separately to 'newb', so forum newb, lack-of-respect newb etc. It was intended for all sarcastic purposes.
You are still wrong on what deserves and what doesn't deserve a thorough response. It is this kind of reasoning that proper dialogue suffers. Especially when it comes to something as important as perpetuating stereotypes, which is something I hate more than ever and the sort of stereotypes Japanese suffer "Japanese are indirect", "Japanese wave their hand when they say no", "Why do Japanese women cover their mouths when they laugh" ("100 Tough questions for Japan"(OKAY KILL ME NOW) i.e common sense sort of shit that westerners simply can't understand, is dogshit, compared to the shit I suffer. When someone calls me a Palestinian terrorist bomber, of course I'd think they're newbs, but saying "lol. n00b" won't do much to put ignorance in its place.
