@Nii87 - captal is right. You can develop the ability to do it at will I think.

Perhaps it is akin to learning Japanese... there is a long way you can go with it, and it's not something you can master completely with minimal effort. But if you train yourself to do it, it will open up your world, perhaps in unexpected ways. And I would guess that it's not nearly as hard as becoming fluent in Japanese.... but who knows, highly individual I suppose. I got pretty decent at it with WAY less effort then I have put into Japanese in the last year...and I still SUCK at Japanese (and will for a loooooong time).....

Really, ya’ll are such bad asses with regard to self studying Japanese, developing LD could well be a walk in the park!

I'm also of the opinion that the skills developed by an active LD practice will improve your mind, and have a nice impact on learning Japanese, as it will strengthen your memory, and is probably great mental hygiene.

I don't know much about the machine. In LaBerge's book he talks about one they developed and were marketing, but I read about it a long time ago, so I'm not sure what the current tech stuff is now. If I remember correctly they made a light that is an external queue, and I'd be willing to bet that it works. I do have a binaural beat Paul Scheele audio lucid dream thing, and I have some other random guided LD audio MP3's, but I really never experimented with them. I think I prefer to just use my own mind to induce LD (WILD style or otherwise) rather then someone else's voice, or a machine. But these may be helpful for some (maybe I should try them and report back). If anyone seriously wants to try them, I'd be curious to hear about their experiences.

@captal - Love the attitude man!

Perhaps the best thing about wanting to remember your dreams, and the whole lucidity trip is that it "wakes" you to new potentials. I see my own reality differently because of the experiences of dreams, and how the experiential quality of each of the states influences the quality of the others.

Really the enthusiasm is infectious. It's really motivating me to get back into the practice again myself!

I keep thinking of little tips to add here, so I'll throw one more out there. I think I learned this one in the Dream Yoga book.....

Lying in bed, before you go to sleep for the night, think about things you are grateful for. Then remember the day, but try to think of it as a dream (I think the past and dreams are quite similar really). Try and go through your entire day this way, as quickly or as detailed as it pleases you (I found rhythm with it) up to the current moment. Be relaxing as you do this. Then resolve to be lucid in your dreams , and meditate on this if you want (or do the "a" in the throat like the monks). You can visualize what you want to do in the LD if you like. Sleep (often I would pass out during the gratitude part -depends on sleep debt I suppose).

When I did this it worked...really well (in conjunction with all the other stuff of course). My own idea about it is that it sort of cleans the slate, and frames things in a way that is conducive to LD. It's like the morning part, when you remember your dreams. You’re directing you attention, and strengthening your ability to remember, and that's the heart of lucidity. And I think cultivating feelings of gratitude for a few minuets (and praying if you do this in some way) is a way to relax your mind and put it in a good space as well.

Hope I don't sound too preachy here...I just keep thinking of stuff. Really there are many paths with it, and just like J study people will check out what has worked for others, then maybe try/adjust/create what works for them. Be creative, and have fun with it!

I had a dream about vampires!!1 OMG Edward was so hot and speaking Japanese.

Here's a pretty good FAQ on LD that answers a lot of questions we've had:
http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html

Like- how quickly can I learn LD: http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html#howquick

@captal - I will! Just since this thread started up it has impacted my dreaming. I'm going to get more active with it starting today, and do a little goal setting similar to the way I study Japanese.

But I certainly am no "pro". I certainly never became so good at it that I could do it all the time, or completely control and do anything I wanted. My experience comes from learning to do it about 20 years ago after reading LabBerge's book as a young lad. At different phases of my life I have put effort into the practice, and found that when I do, it reaps rewards (and I continue to get better at flying LOL). But for me it can take a lot of discipline, a quality that I have struggled to have in my life, so it has been very start and stop with LD. However I think that studying Japanese has taught me a great deal about discipline at this phase of my life, so it will be interesting to see what happens this time around....

3 years ago I was doing all the practices I have mentioned, combining things I learned from LaBerge with things I learned in "Dream Yoga" which I read at that time. I peaked at having them up to 5 nights in a week (sometimes more than one), but usually 2-3, and of varying duration/intensity/quality, which did improve with frequency. I did keep a journal at the time, and eventually (and still do) just write in it if I have a really important or amazing dream. It's pretty interesting looking through an old journal...

It also came in waves a bit for me. Sometimes I had fantastic success, and other times it seemed to be infrequent, even if I worked at it. But for the most part effort = LD's. I did this for about 6 months or so, then I became distracted by events in my life, and things tapered off. In the last few years I have not practiced much, but I do have crazy clarity and intense dreams, and have little problem remembering them if I choose to. And maybe 5 - 10 times a year I have one spontaneously. At this point it's a matter of wiping off the dust on the ol' LD reality machine, and see where she takes me...

Perhaps just as interesting as what was happening in my dreams, was how I felt in waking reality. I was living in the most god awful place (suburbia - ok not THE most but...), that normally would have depressed the hell out of me, and was able to be content and clear in a way I had never experienced before. Thinking about it now, I kind of miss that, and want to get it back. I have been so focused on Japanese, and developing it that I have forgotten to practice. The beauty of it is that there is room to do both, and as I mentioned, both will benefit each other. The actual time required to do some sort of LD practice on a daily basis doesn't have to be all that much to make it work.

Thanks to everyone who posted links to LD info. I haven't had a chance to check them out yet, but I will soon, and I'm sure there's tons more things I can learn about it. And be sure to post any tips/ideas of your own. I'm always looking for ways to improve and refine things (yeah...kinda like Japanese studies perhaps).

Last edited by TaylorSan (2009 November 17, 12:26 pm)

woah, bombpersons that was quick. congrats.

this thread has motivated me to try again. thanks guys. i pretty much never remember my dreams, so in the past 3 days i've kept a dream journal and it's amazing how quickly my journal went from a little scribble to a vivid recollection. just that alone excites me! it also gives me patience while i wait for my LD success

Good job bombpersons! That's awesome! When I started it was similar.  I've had many jump dreams, where I jump up a huge cliff, or into a tree, or down. Or jump/fly onto walls, and jump wall to wall. Those are fun. Flight took me some time to develop. At first I would just float uncontrollably. Then I got a bit more control but there were always these power lines I had trouble getting past. Then I rocketed past the power lines, and was never bothered by them again. Then I would get so fricking high, and the butterflies in my stomach were so intense , that I would loose it. It felt real - like actually being 5,000 feet up in the air. Eventually flying into outer space was my goal. Then to another planet. Now I work on finite control, like dive bombing under a bridge over a river, and dragging a single toe in the water. But I still have not mastered the art, and many times it's like a jet pack and glide, like a boost I turn on and off with my mind (I found that the mind works great for me, if I try too hard to "physically" fly it becomes a struggle). I want to rock it like superman - total control.

I'm stoked for you man! It can be tricky to stay calm and remember all the tricks etc., even if you've done it a lot. They will vary widely in quality and duration too. I had one two nights ago where I realized I was dreaming because of a slight float/flutter in gravity as a walked. I tested it by putting my arm through a glass widow (like a ghost). But I questioned it for some reason, and tried it again. This time my hand hit a solid window, and the LD was over before it even got going! There seem to be endless variations on the dream messing with me from dream to dream, but I usually don't fall for the same trick twice.

Take each experience in and learn from it, and you will probably quickly improve, and make steady progress.

Last edited by TaylorSan (2009 November 18, 10:07 am)

This thread is trippy.

Apparently a dream journal is the first step for lucidity, but I just want to get to the meat of it =P

chamcham wrote:

As long as I don't start hearing about homoerotic lucid dreams
with Heisig in them, I think we'll be fine.

ok so there was no homoeroticism in my dream, but there was some heisig -_-;

i heard that if you want to calm down and stay in the dream once learning you were lucid, you had to grab something. so i imagined the primitive for "two hands," and then i grabbed a life-sized version of that kanji.

so lame.

So far my Lucid Dreaming experience have been limited to only controlling my own actions within the dream, and nothing else.

The main thing I have in common is my ability to fly, which is usually required to play out the dream anyways, and the main thing that usually ends the dream, is usually the inability to breath, especially when I am about to scream.

Even though I know it's a dream it can be scary stuff when this happens ><

I think I prefer this type of Lucid Dream to the godmode, like playing a game, but without the cheats.

Yeah no LD's for me here (since last post)- just the usual intense random weird array of stuff. I personally don't try to analyze them too much.....

I have been reality checking and amping up practice, so maybe soon? You never know with this stuff.

I had the same experience with the dream journal/ finding patterns - Tons of data but....

I basically noticed distant friends appearing, and occasional car/wacky physics/no brakes type of driving dreams. I also have lots of dreams where I'm trying to do something fun, like go snowboarding or play a game of hoops, and it just doesn't happen, the game never starts, there's no snow, etc. (this is one that is easy to analyze LOL). For me LD seems to work best from reality checks, especially the little "hop" gravity check.

Last edited by TaylorSan (2009 November 23, 9:27 pm)

Have anyway of you guys heard of the Ganzfeld experiment?

If you've seen the Japanese drama "Nanase Futatabi", there is an episode
where a scientist conducts a Ganzfeld experiment.

It puts your body into a state of mild sensory deprivation.

Basically, you deprive your eyes and ears the ability to sense anything correctly.

You have this red light shining into your eyes and the whole room is the same color
and there are no distinguishing features to help you pick out parts of the room.
After some time, you're unable to perceive depth.

So imagine if a whole room is painted the same color and you can't even tell where the wall is (or if there are any walls nearby). It's just a sea of pure white (or red, or whatever color you choose).

For your eyes, they project white or pink noise (both are kinds of random computer generated noise). So after a while, you're unable to tell if you are hearing real sounds or if it's random noise.

I can imagine that people get into weird trippy states doing this stuff.

Ganzfeld experiment were mainly used in experiment to detect ESP or telepathy (as in "Nanase Futatabi").

Anyway, here's a wikipedia link for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_experiment

Almost makes me wish I could try it out once to see if I get any cool dreams or whatever.

In addition to white noise and pink noise, you can also try red/brown noise. YMMV.

Last edited by chamcham (2009 November 23, 10:53 pm)

Actually, how about someone try this out.

Lie down.

Cut a ping pong ball in half and place the halves over both eyes.
Put on headphones and play white/red/pink/brown noise continuously (using gapless playback) for 30 minutes. (http://www.simplynoise.com/download.html)  --> scroll down the page

Also, white noise has been known to help people sleep or concentrate.
Let us know if you had any weird hallucinations or lucid dreams.

Last edited by chamcham (2009 November 23, 11:30 pm)

no LD for me yet. i've been journaling and i've noticed all sorts of ridiculous and crazy things in my dreams, but i just can't get myself to realize it while i'm actually dreaming. a recurring theme for me is that old friends and lost pets keep showing up but i feel like it's completely normal. also i'm in strange places i've never been to before, but i don't seem to mind. lol. how can i get myself to notice these cues while in the dream?