河 and 川... what's the difference?

Index » The Japanese language

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Reply #1 - 2007 March 26, 5:37 pm
elktapestry Member
From: Olympia Washinton Registered: 2006-11-17 Posts: 27 Website

So 川 and 河... not only do they share similar meaning but also the same reading of かわ... does anyone know exactly what the differences between these are. Hesig assigns 川 the meaning of "stream" and 河 the meaning of "river" but from the usage I've seen... it doesn't seem to work as neatly as that in Japanese. I've seen 川 in references to large sized rivers, not just smaller streams. So maybe it's not a size difference that determines the difference? Perhaps there's a nebulous room of overlap between the use of these Kanij?... or are there strict rules denoting the appropriate times one should use one or the other... curious...

Reply #2 - 2007 March 27, 3:55 pm
Serge Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2006-04-04 Posts: 275

One Chinese etymology book I'm using suggests that the second character (the [h?] - http://zhongwen.com/cgi-bin/zipux2.cgi?b5=%AAe - apologies, this forum won't let me use kanji from Safari) is used for channels and smaller rivers. Presumably, the difference is long lost on the Japanese so it's just a matter of tradition. Interestingly, http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/ doesn't seem to make a difference between the two...

Reply #3 - 2007 March 28, 2:53 am
Kieron Member
From: Seattle - USA Registered: 2007-02-23 Posts: 63

川 is more common for the names of rivers in Japan, 河 is more common for foreign rivers.  Not an absolute rule, though, and that doesn't do much to distinguish the compound words.... particularly the curiously redundant 河川 (かせん, "rivers").

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Reply #4 - 2007 March 28, 5:14 am
Serge Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2006-04-04 Posts: 275

Kieron wrote:

particularly the curiously redundant 河川 (かせん, "rivers").

Such redundancy is very common and comes from Chinese as well, which would otherwise be inintelligible in its spoken form...

Reply #5 - 2007 March 28, 9:50 am
elktapestry Member
From: Olympia Washinton Registered: 2006-11-17 Posts: 27 Website

河川 that's an easy and fun compound to know.

Reply #6 - 2007 March 29, 6:48 am
fragileshards Member
From: Japan Registered: 2006-09-01 Posts: 28

I had a chat about this when I was playing the kanji name game with a Japanese teacher at my school (how do you do your name in kanji, what does it mean etc.) Her name is Kawamura but when I said - oh kawa like river.  She said - yeah, but the hard kanji for river. Which was when I learned 河　for the first time. I thought it was an interesting way to think about it.

Reply #7 - 2012 September 15, 6:03 am
warakawa Banned
From: Melbourne Registered: 2012-08-06 Posts: 149

河 is Chinese river, 川 is Japanese river.

Reply #8 - 2012 September 15, 6:15 am
TwoMoreCharacters Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2010-07-10 Posts: 480

https://www.google.com/#hl=sv&sclie … mp;bih=794

Reply #9 - 2012 September 15, 6:23 am
buonaparte Member
Registered: 2010-11-25 Posts: 797

泥の河 (Muddy River) is the title of a very good Japanese movie by 小栗康平, it was produced in 1981. What a movie!
河 is in a fifth grade kanji in 教育漢字.

Reply #10 - 2012 September 15, 7:52 am
JimmySeal Member
From: Kyoto Registered: 2006-03-28 Posts: 2279

TwoMoreCharacters wrote:

https://www.google.com/#hl=sv&sclient=psy-ab&q=%E5%B7%9D%E3%81%A8%E6%B2%B3%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84&oq=%E5%B7%9D%E3%81%A8%E6%B2%B3%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84&gs_l=hp.3..0i4i37.352.29822.1.31191.65.40.25.0.0.4.299.3151.35j3j2.40.0...0.0...1c.1j4.dUSBx9d_m4M&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=e1e49ee55957261b&biw=1536&bih=794

This link just takes me to the Google homepage.

River is 川 in ordinary writing and as a suffix on river names.  河 can appear in compounds, proper names (including song names).

Reply #11 - 2012 September 15, 8:07 am
Arupan Member
Registered: 2012-08-05 Posts: 259

You should use 河 only when you want to emphasize on the size of the river. 河 is bigger than 川.

Reply #12 - 2012 September 15, 10:00 am
warakawa Banned
From: Melbourne Registered: 2012-08-06 Posts: 149

TwoMoreCharacters wrote:

https://www.google.com/#hl=sv&sclient=psy-ab&q=%E5%B7%9D%E3%81%A8%E6%B2%B3%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84&oq=%E5%B7%9D%E3%81%A8%E6%B2%B3%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84&gs_l=hp.3..0i4i37.352.29822.1.31191.65.40.25.0.0.4.299.3151.35j3j2.40.0...0.0...1c.1j4.dUSBx9d_m4M&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=e1e49ee55957261b&biw=1536&bih=794

don't you just hate people like this?

Reply #13 - 2012 September 15, 10:39 am
TwoMoreCharacters Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2010-07-10 Posts: 480

I'm sorry if the link is screwed up. I don't know what it is, in my browser it's shortened and leads to search results.

Here's one of them, I thought it could help.

Reply #14 - 2012 September 15, 11:17 am
gdaxeman Member
From: Brazil Registered: 2007-06-19 Posts: 278 Website

TwoMoreCharacters wrote:

I'm sorry if the link is screwed up. I don't know what it is, in my browser it's shortened and leads to search results.

It seems it doesn't work for users using certain browsers, such as IE and some others. Anyway, it's just a Google search for the term 川と河の違い , if anyone's interested.

Reply #15 - 2012 September 15, 11:30 am
buonaparte Member
Registered: 2010-11-25 Posts: 797

Among 100 most popular Japanese family names (Wikipedia):
5 names with 川 and only one with 河.

Aozora Bunko - writers' names:
16 with 川 and 5 with 河.

Reply #16 - 2012 September 15, 2:32 pm
Ash_S Member
From: UK Registered: 2011-02-24 Posts: 156

基本的にはどちらも同じなのだが、一般的な認識としては「流れが小さく川幅の狭いものを川」、「流れが大きく川幅の広いものを河」と定義する場合が多い。

From a site I found from that google search. So basically what arupan said^^;

Last edited by Ash_S (2012 September 15, 2:33 pm)

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