Newbie question about なく

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FooSoft Member
From: Seattle, WA Registered: 2009-02-15 Posts: 513 Website

I'm plugging away at smart.fm sentences, and I've run into an unfamiliar conjugation of ない - なく。

For example:
「昨今では農家は家畜ではなく近代的な機械を用いている。」
or:
「…その他には、声もなく。」

Kind of like looke like て form but w/o the て... What grammar is this, I can't figure it out sad

ropsta Member
From: 闇の底 Registered: 2009-07-23 Posts: 253

I couldnt figure it out either. I just go with it.

I'd like to hear some explainations as well.

Ryajinor Member
From: Maryland Registered: 2008-12-26 Posts: 42

Isn't that the... adjectival form? Something like that. I think this is covered and Tae Kim somewhere?

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FooSoft Member
From: Seattle, WA Registered: 2009-02-15 Posts: 513 Website

Yes, but ない isn't an i-adjective, so I can't see how it could be used as an adverb (where you have like 早い being used like 早く食べる)

Last edited by FooSoft (2009 September 05, 8:14 pm)

magamo Member
From: Pasadena, CA Registered: 2009-05-29 Posts: 1039

The original sentence ...ではなく近代的な... and the て version ...ではなくて近代的な... mean pretty much the same thing. You'll come across the former pattern more often in written text and formal speech while the latter is more common in everyday conversation. Also, you might want to see them as a conjugated version of a set phrase "ではない" rather than the ない -> なくconjugation because 〜ではなく and 〜ではなくて are almost always interchangeable while 〜なく and 〜なくて are usually not, i.e., ない has various grammatical functions and meanings, but when it follows では, the little word て most likely doesn't change anything aside from the slight difference in nuance.

For example, なにも言わなくていいよ。(You don't have to say anything.) is ok, but なにも言わなくいいよ。sounds unnatural. So the function/meaning of ない here is different from that in your example.

The ないs in the first and second sentences in your post may be the same. But I can't say anything for sure without context.

Jarvik7 Member
From: 名古屋 Registered: 2007-03-05 Posts: 3946

FooSoft wrote:

Yes, but ない isn't an i-adjective, so I can't see how it could be used as an adverb (where you have like 早い being used like 早く食べる)

Where did you get that idea? It most certainly is an i-adj..

大辞林 wrote:

な·い [1] 【無い·亡い】 ()[文]ク な·し

Formal writing often leaves out the て of て form. It is not the adverbial form.

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2009 September 05, 8:43 pm)

FooSoft Member
From: Seattle, WA Registered: 2009-02-15 Posts: 513 Website

@magamo:
Thanks for the explanation - it makes a lot of sense now. I was kind of suspecting it something was along those lines, but didn't want to learn it incorrectly.

@jarvik7:
Ah, did not know that. I thought it was only a negative conjugation of ある. Good thing to know.

Jarvik7 Member
From: 名古屋 Registered: 2007-03-05 Posts: 3946

ある doesn't have a plain negative form in modern use. A different word is just used instead (ない).

Negative conjugations of ある:
polite: ありません
literary/formal: あらず
(obsolete) plain form: あらない

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2009 October 25, 9:49 am)

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