Thanks for the post. I see parallels in part to how I was studying, mainly with doing Pimsleur and JFBP before and during doing RTK.

I'm wondering, how would you rate your listening skills in all of this?  It's by realizing how well I could read, but not listen to (and as a by product speak in) natural Japanese that changed my approach to all of this.

Last edited by Nukemarine (2009 August 20, 4:48 am)

Nukemarine wrote:

Thanks for the post. I see parallels in part to how I was studying, mainly with doing Pimsleur and JFBP before and during doing RTK.

I'm wondering, how would you rate your listening skills in all of this?  It's by realizing how well I could read, but not listen to (and as a by product speak in) natural Japanese that changed my approach to all of this.

I don't really know how to rate my listening skills. I always watch RAW dramas/animes. If the drama is a love story(７リトルの涙）、then I can understand about 90% of it. The harder dramas are stuff like　ガリレオ。 I listen to nothing but Japanese all day long, so it helps. But, let's say I go to a party with 5 Japanese people speaking to each other. When they get all excited, I find it hard to concentrate and understand what they are saying.

I'm not sure how the first line of your post relates to the topic.

Are you saying you've never met someone who did what he prescribes and reached fluency? Cuz, that's a big can of subjective apples.

I like that you've invested a siiiick amount of time in the language. I will I was so diligent. I've been studying for a year, now. I can hold everyday sort of conversations without too many problems. I don't spend nearly as much time reading as I should since I've started school again, and I've been working on art related projects.

I'm not doing pure AJATT, as 先輩 put it. I'm applying more of a jeet kun do mentality; taking what I like from certain methods and deleting the rest.

Right now I don't mine for sentences. I use premade tae kim, smart fm, and subs2srs decks, I do my own version of scriptorium, and I've stopped listening around the clock as it seems mostly like "やがだやがだや、やはり、やがだやがだ、どうして、やがだ、なるほど、超速再生、そんな力、やがだやがだ、やがだやがだアタシでいたいやがだ、自分の中やがだ、ほかの、やがだ、たましい” There's no way in hell to gain anything valuable at this point. It's even worse when old people talk, "やがだやがだやがだやがだやがだじゃ、んんん、やがだやがだやがだ、おお、やがだやがだやがだ.”

I've gotten to point where I clearly hear the syllables but not don't understand the words being said, so I'm focusing more on vocabulary and recognizing it by ear.

mr_hans_moleman wrote:

What I meant is that his site has been around. But, I haven't met another person who actually studied Japanese hardcore in that amount of time.

よろしく

>thermal

I just like to point out that that video is 2 years after he claimed to be fluent. With those two years being spent in Japan.

>thermal

The sentences in my SRS came from Tae Kim, and alc.co.jp in the beginning. What I would also do is type in words on google and look for interesting sentences. Right now, I get them from stuff I read on the internet, or in books. One thing I find useful is:
http://chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/

It's a very useful site for getting sentences.

>thurd
Yes I am a bit disappointed. In my mind, I'm still a beginner even though I can read novels. If I compare myself to a native speaker, then I am a beginner. If I compare myself to other people studying Japanese, then I'm advanced.

"about 7.5 hours?" Who on earth can do apart from millionaires and jobless people? What's your job? Are you like dying behind the computer in a big international company? Lucky you as long as your goal is to learn Japanese.

All in all, I just want to add my BIG THANK for the feeback on your experience. This is the kind of words I really like to read: about human, individual experience...

Now, what would be your comment on my situation:
PHASE 1: It's been about 3 weeks that I've been doing Pimsleur (30 min/day or every 2 day)and RTK (10 to 20 kanjis/day or every day).
- If I find 1:30 per day for my Japanese, I'm just lucky.
- Every 2 weeks, I spent about 2 hours with a Japanese friend for language exchange.
Should I just keep on like this during 6 months to see where it goes? At least, in between those 2 references (Pimsleur and RTK), I don't feel lost and can focus quite easily,esp. seeing the limited time I have to study.

PHASE 2: Once I'm finished with Pimsleur and RTK, my plan is to go for Tae Kim's and add his sentence to Anki.

PHASE 3: reading real materials (novels, short stories, manga) and mining for sentences and grammar points based on those materials.

Again, please consider that I can't devote enough time to perfect both my oral and written Japanese, etc.

Post removed:

I totally bungled the tone of this one, coming across as a condescending jerk.  Please see my apology below.

Last edited by wildweathel (2009 August 21, 4:16 pm)

I can understand not wanting to do your RTK deck. In fact, I have my daily review waiting for me. I hate SRSing (I can't believe anyone thinks it's fun.)

If I ever gain any fluency, the first thing I'll drop like a rock is my Japanese SRS deck (probably to be replaced by a Spanish, Latin, or Italian deck though )

Are you interested?
I am, sensei mr_hans_moleman :-)

TaylorSan wrote:

OP-

Great post.  I too am curious if there is a "fluent" AJATTer out there.  I also started with Pimsleur (got through Intermediate).  When I started, this was in September last year, I knew nothing, and the goal was to just learn a little bit, so when I traveled to J land (a dream of mine for many years) I could show some respect to the natives.  Japanese is the first 2nd language I have ever tried.  From there, my interest in the culture/language grew, and I realized that I wanted more than to be able to say basic phrases, and that Pimsluer wouldn't work.  I began to research language learning on the net,  and was considering finding classes.  Then of course, I found AJATT (this was in December)......

Like many, I was inspired!  Khatz gave me the motivation to want to learn reading and writing.  I liked the idea of learning to speak/listen/read/write, and the dream of fluency took flight.

January 1st I began RTK, and recording for myself my study efforts.  I have a daily calender with three catigories:Listening (hours per day - both active and passive), Kanji (#of RTK added,  RTK#,  #reviewed, %passed) and as of Feb, Sentences (#added, #reviewed in SRS).  I started mining around 1300 in RTK I think, because I was getting too bored only doing RTK.  I also got my Kana somewhere in there.  This slowed down RTK, but that was fine with me.  I reviewed RTK 2042 on April 30th.

I enjoy the SRS, but my mining is a bit slow.  I really need to hear my mined sentences outside of Anki time, so I have them on the ipod.  I found adding more than 10 sentences a day was too much, so I was not getting too many cards in.  For mining I mostly used the KO list on iknow, and Jpod101.  I did this until June 15th, and I think it was going well......

Then life interfered.  I was called to Alaska to go commercial fishing.  With only a few days notice I tried to come up with something to limit the atrophy of my studies, but when it came down to it, I was too busy to study, and I lacked the portable tools I would of needed anyway (my ipod died in AK too).  So my studies took a 2+ month hit, and boy does it sting!  Until today, I have not been able to resume my studies.

I am a beginner BIG TIME, but now I have to fight to reclaim the little I knew.  RTK is in bad shape, listening is pretty bad, and speaking/reading/writing......HORRIBLE!

But yo, I'm back, and ready to kick some serious 日本語の勉強 ass!  One of the positives is I have a new macbook pro, and ipod touch in my arsinel!  I think a month of study will reconnect the J synapses, and from there I can begin to progress again. Though I am a bit frustrated with the state of my Japanese, I have learned an amazing amount about myself, motivation, and how to learn.  I have evolved "AJATT" into more than a system for leaning language, and like many who were inspired by the site, have found my own way with it. 

From my vantage, you are doing really really well!  I appreciate you sharing your experience, and it gives me inspiration to continue (really painful right now, but I know it will all work out!)

頑張って!!!

I don't really doubt the existence of a fluent "AJATTeer". What I doubt is someone who can speak/read/write fluent Japanese in 16 months or less. I literally dedicated my life to Japanese this past 16 months, so maybe I did something wrong. Try picking up some mangas. I recommend Crayon shincan. It's very simple and comes with furigana. It was one of those things that made me want to keep studying Japanese.

What you should do, IMO, is go to Japan. You're American, so you can get a work holiday visa, right? Take it, go to Japan for 6 months or so. You seem to lack only in speaking, and you learn to speak Japanese extremely well by living there for a while.

Another thing to think about is your vocabulary. About how many words do you know? It could be that in your complete AJATT focus, you have enjoyed websites and such things and learned to ignore the words you don't know to mine just what you need (which is what Khazu recommends), and maybe your vocabulary is still just in the 9000-10 000 range, which is probably a level where you feel you SHOULD be fluent but it still doesn't feel quite right (you said you have about 5000 facts in your SRS, so it could definitely be right). Just keep boosting your vocab (a tip is to go through the JLPT lists systematically and enter a sentence or two for each word you come across that you don't know. For me, who already had a vocabulary of around 6000 words, it is an awesome way to make sure I learn ALL the basic important words, without wasting too much time. It still means I skip most words, so it's not very heavy mining.)