Done. Hooray!

I think I'll pass on RTK3 and just pick up the rest as I go along.

Will do.

At the moment:

Correct Answers
Mature cards: 88.9% (160 of 180)
Young cards: 92.6% (7629 of 8243)

The deck's only 1.6 months old so I haven't tested many mature cards yet, hopefully that first percentage should go up with practice.

Last edited by dizmox (2009 September 30, 1:08 pm)

mezbup wrote:

yukamina wrote:

mezbup wrote:

On a separate note...

Anyone heard of or better yet, tried, Photoreading?

My mom used to have a course for Photoreading sitting around the house when I was in junior high, and every now and then I'd give it a try...and never get very far. Can you photoread? Does it really work?

No, i've never completed the course and tried to do it. It's one of those things that would be ideal if it worked which makes it to good to be true and you know what they say about things that are too good to be true. They're for lack of better words too good to be true.

Still the idea kinda makes sense to me. Maybe I should give it a go and see. No point wondering.

I think it's worth a try. After all people dismiss RTK all the time because it doesn't seem realistic. Sorry for the late response, I thought this was on my other language forum ^_^;

edit:typo

Last edited by yukamina (2009 October 17, 2:35 pm)

I've never actually seen a compelling reason not to use mnemonics. Everyone seems to assume that once you learn a kanji using a mnemonic, you're stuck having to use that mnemonic to recall the kanji every time you have to use it, forever. Its simply not true. It just means you don't have to spend hours and hours learning by rote. mnemonics allow you to plough through a lot faster and save your wrist some strain. I was incredibly pleased when I discovered heisig, because I had been using mnemonic memory systems for  over 2 years to remember just about everything. I can still recall a list of 20 random objects I've read twice in my life (both occasions 2 years ago) backwards and forwards, using a mnemonic system not dissimilar from heisig's. Its a lot easier with concrete things than some of the abstract concepts that kanji convey, but its not that hard really.

Mnemonics used correctly will only help you. The key is to make them as vivid as possible. They should be funny, disgusting , sexual, absurd anything that will resonate with you. If you actually find yourself laughing at the image of a mnemonic you've thought up, it's more likely to stick than if you've just read the story and tried to memorise it.

Chances are, you're not saving time by not using mnemonics in my experience.

But what ever floats your boat. Its just heisigs entire method is so hinged on the mnemonics, it seems if you're just going to learn them by rote you could just get a list of kanji from the internet somewhere and do the same thing.

Last edited by Giant_Enemy_Crab (2009 October 13, 6:21 pm)

"RTK without the mnemonics" isn't RTK. I'm trying to think of a comparison; maybe "AJATT five hours a week", or something.

Not to say that I think the approach is off-track. My experience was that there came a point at which I'd gotten enough of a feel for how kanji work that mnemonics were unnecessary and unhelpful (Giant_Enemy_Crab, would you use a mnemonic to remember a three-digit number, or that your weak point can be attacked for massive damage?).

~J

Honestly I couldn't be bothered to read ALL THE WAY through this thread, but just wanted to add my 2 cents.

The main part of the Heisig system that benefited me was simply the keywords set up with component analysis all tied in and introduced in a systematically as building blocks.

SOME of the kanji, yes I will use mnemonics, but in all honesty, most of them i just remember the keywords for the parts and sometimes the kanji as a whole,  I just try to get through as quickly as possible.

I have finished RTK once already quite quickly with good retention rates, and had some stuff come up in my life causing my reviews to pile up too much after a couple months of doing nothing so i decided to simply wipe my progress and start again, using the same systematic approach instead of slugging my way through 1400 reviews and probably a large failed pile.

If I could not remember the kanji without a mnemonic, i would THEN use a mnemonic, but I didn't waste my time trying to get an image into my head until i knew that I needed to.  On my second round through so far all my reviews have been 98% and up even though it has been a few months, so it does work for me, I think it's just a matter of how much some people need mnemonics compared to others.

A good friend of mine that is also studying japanese, was introduced by me to RTK and used the exact same method as I did, without telling me at first.  One day we were discussing RTK and he admitted to not really use many mnemonics, but just recall the pieces needed to make up the kanji almost like a li st, same as me when he couldn't recall the kanji as a whole, and only using mnemonics in the most dire of circumstances.

He is now on RTK3.

Point is, I think the main strength of RTK is the systematic approach, with the keywords already laid out for us.  The component analysis is really the only reason I decided to do RTK and it worked for me, and with less work than trying to make up stories for every kanji.

kilioopu wrote:

I've met lots of people and lots of skills, so you could be one.

But.... if this is the forum by which you validate yourself, you might find something flashier. A friend is working on 1,000 digits of pi...

Happy kanji!

Does your friend know about the people who know pi to several hundreds of thousands of digits? One guy I think... it was 3 or 33 million? Something ridiculous anyway.

kilioopu wrote:

I've met lots of people and lots of skills, so you could be one.

But.... if this is the forum by which you validate yourself, you might find something flashier. A friend is working on 1,000 digits of pi...

Happy kanji!

Hmm... I wonder if the 東大 mathematics department will find it sufficiently impressive to let me in if I just recite pi in their language at the interview...

Nukemarine wrote:

By the way, what's the time investment would you say? 50 days at how many hours a day plus time afterwards reviewing cards till 90% are mature?

I probably did an hour or so a day on average while I was adding, possibly 1.5. That is, going through the new ones for the day, testing the new ones for today, doing old reviews. Say 70 hours over 50 days.

Now it's been about 20 days since I stopped adding (other than non RTK1 ones I encounter in sentences) and my reviews take me about 10 minutes a day (about 80 kanji a day), so pretty negligible. I've got 1620 mature atm, so will have 90% mature in a few more days. 

So in all I would say, probably no more than 75 hours till they're 90% mature.

Last edited by dizmox (2009 October 20, 11:52 am)

dizmox wrote:

Now it's been about 20 days since I stopped adding (other than non RTK1 ones I encounter in sentences) and my reviews take me about 10 minutes a day (about 80 kanji a day), so pretty negligible.

80 in 10 minutes sounds really quick. That's an average of one every 8 seconds!

Are you writing out the kanji during reviews?

Ok, I timed properly and I did 55 in 10 minutes. Overestimated a bit >.>.

I was the same way, memorizing mostly just statements, or just remembering the kanji as is.  If you have gotten this far just keep it up and you will be fine

Last edited by Dustin_Calgary (2011 February 10, 10:50 am)