Personally, I take 頭がいい人ほど自慢しない。 to mean "I don't brag that I'm a smart person", more similar to "I don't act like I'm smarter than I am".

Zorlee wrote:

Ok, I'm starting to think that I've used up my share of this thread, but anyway - here's some confusing sentences from todays session:

No way! Please ask more questions. I always want to answer but some else always beats me to it.

Zorlee wrote:

あんな大事故にあって、よく助かったものだ。
Without a context, I'm a bit lost with this sentence. I've had some troubles before with よく - ものだ sentences. Can it mean something like: "it was remarkable that (you?) got saved from such a major accident"

That's exactly what it means.

「あのレストランで送別会しない。」「あそこ５０人入れるほど広かったっけ。」
I don't get the あのレストランで送別会しない actually... Or at least I don't think I do. Does it mean: "That restaurant doesn't do farewell-parties" (I know it's not directly translated, but the meaning). I'm confused, since I expected a できない, as in not being able to throw a party.

Either works; it's the difference between "They don't do farewell parties" and "We can't do a farewell party there".

引っ越しの前の晩は、食事どころではなく、夜遅くまで荷作りが終わらなかった。
A bit confused about the 夜遅くまで荷作りが終わらなかった part.
Does it mean that they/I/whatever wasn't finished packing until late at night?
The sentence order screwing me over here I guess...

You already know all these sentences.

thatkidpercy wrote:

「あのレストランで送別会しない。」「あそこ５０人入れるほど広かったっけ。」
I don't get the あのレストランで送別会しない actually... Or at least I don't think I do. Does it mean: "That restaurant doesn't do farewell-parties" (I know it's not directly translated, but the meaning). I'm confused, since I expected a できない, as in not being able to throw a party.

Depending on the intonation of the しない in the first sentence then it could mean "Shall we have a leaving party at that restaurant?", "I wonder if it's big enough to hold 50 people..."

Duh, of course...that's definitely right.  Often you would see a ? instead of 。 to express that intonation but not always.

Woho! Thank you guys!
I don't know, sometimes it really helps thinking out loud, so thank you for taking the time to look over the sentences!

And now... unsuspending-time

mr_hans_moleman wrote:

mirina wrote:

天文学とは、天体や天文現象など、地球外で生起する自然現象の観測、法則の発見などを行う自然科学の一分野。

If possible, could someone please explain to me, in grammatical terms, how exactly 天体や天文現象など modifies the rest of this sentence?

In other words, I understand what the sentence is saying, but I'm not exactly understanding the exact role 天体や天文現象など takes in this sentence, grammatically. (I know など means "things like, etc", but it's still not making sense to me)

天体や天文現象など
= things like heavenly bodies and astronomical phenomenon

Here is my translation:

Astronomy is one of the natural sciences which observes and discover laws of heavenly bodies, astronomical phenomenon, and natural phenomenons which occur outside of the earth.

That's how I interpreted it too. But the thing is, why isn't it something like 天体や天文現象や自然現象などの観測, though? Realistically I know that makes no sense when 地球外で生起する is added to the mix, but to my non-native mind, it just reads like 天体や天文現象など was randomly thrown in there.

[edit] Nevermind, I think I get it now; because of the 地球外で生起する part it guess it wouldn't have worked any other way. Thanks.

mr_hans_moleman wrote:

天文学は、数ある科学のなかでもアマチュアが活発に活動している数少ない分野である。

Among the sciences, astronomy is one of the few fields in which even amateurs can actively participate.

Ah, so it is among. Thanks for the clarification.

Last edited by mirina (2010 January 13, 8:39 pm)

mirina wrote:

天文学とは、天体や天文現象など、地球外で生起する自然現象の観測、法則の発見などを行う自然科学の一分野。

If possible, could someone please explain to me, in grammatical terms, how exactly 天体や天文現象など modifies the rest of this sentence?

I think 天体や天文現象など is modifying 自然現象, to expand on what the writer means by 地球外で生起する自然現象. "Astronomy is the field of the natural sciences which makes observations and discovers laws about natural phenomena which occur off Earth, such as heavenly bodies and other astronomical phenomena." (That English phrasing sounds a bit circular, but never mind.)

天文学は、数ある科学のなかでもアマチュアが活発に活動している数少ない分野である。

Does this say, "Astronomy, compared to a number of other sciences, is one of the few fields in which an amateur can actively participate"? Or is it "among a number of other sciences"? I'm afraid I'm misunderstanding "数ある科学のなかでも" and "数少ない".

数ある here means "many". So the point is that even though there are many different scientific fields (のなかでも) there are only a few which an amateur can take part in, and astronomy is one of those. A vaguely plausible English translation might be "Astronomy is one of the few fields in the sciences which amateurs can play an active part in." (NB: not 'even amateurs'; でも applies to 科学のなか, not アマチュア.)

Late reply, I'm sorry.
Anyway, the page didn't work for me. My computer is very Japanese friendly, but that page appeared like a maze of 0923ibd/// to me
Needless to say, I haven't read it.
What I have done is that I've read up on it in my grammar dictionary, but I still don't understand what to use where, so... I'm really back to where I started.

*crying MAGAMOOOOO*

pm215 wrote:

I think 天体や天文現象など is modifying 自然現象, to expand on what the writer means by 地球外で生起する自然現象. "Astronomy is the field of the natural sciences which makes observations and discovers laws about natural phenomena which occur off Earth, such as heavenly bodies and other astronomical phenomena." (That English phrasing sounds a bit circular, but never mind.)

数ある here means "many". So the point is that even though there are many different scientific fields (のなかでも) there are only a few which an amateur can take part in, and astronomy is one of those. A vaguely plausible English translation might be "Astronomy is one of the few fields in the sciences which amateurs can play an active part in." (NB: not 'even amateurs'; でも applies to 科学のなか, not アマチュア.)

Ah, so that's what 天体や天文現象など is modifying. That makes sense.

So, 数ある科学のなかでも, essentially, means "Among the many sciences"?

zorlee wrote:

But I'm wondering, what's the difference between だけに and だけあって? Would the sentence be correct with だけあって as well?

だけに and だけあって can often be used interchangeably, depending on the sentence. だけあって cannot be used in exchange of だけに, however, when the sentence is basically expressing that something happened different from what the speaker expected, so the feelings are that much more increased. Like, "I was absolutely certain they were selling fruit for half off at the store（だけに/so naturally）I was shocked to see that they were not."

So to answer your question: Yes, I think so.

流石に最高級と言われるワインだけのことはある。味も香りもすばらしい。

Now, where does だけのことはある fit into all this? I guess it means pretty much the same thing, but there must be times you can't use one or the other, so I'm looking for the differences.

だけのことはある = something like... "This is what I'd expect". So, "This is what I'd expect from a so-called top-notch wine." Or, "That is what one would expect" if you are not specifically referring to your own experiences or impressions.

今日の試合は優勝がかかっているだけに大勢のファンが詰めかけ熱烈な応援をしていた。

昨年はみかんが不作で、値段が高かっただけに今年の豊作がうれしい。

These two are supposed to have a different meaning, and I don't think I understand it.
Kanzen Master's explanation is:
ーだからいっそう (However it says that in this usage only だけに can be used)
Does it have a "because" meaning here? Or?

The differences here are essentially stated in my first comment. But, to explain it more, the first sentence is basically saying (not translating here, just summarising): "We won the game, so it's natural, of course, that the fans would passionately support us."

The second is saying, "Last year, regarding oranges, there was a bad crop, so the price went up really high. Naturally, then, I'm REALLY happy about this year's harvest."

Last edited by mirina (2010 January 15, 12:06 pm)

mirina wrote:

The differences here are essentially stated in my first comment. But, to explain it more, the first sentence is basically saying (not translating here, just summarising): "We won the game, so it's natural, of course, that the fans would passionately support us."

Doesn't 優勝がかかる mean that winning the match was important? I always translated this sentence as "Naturally there were a lot of passionate fans cheering us on since it was an important game."

I was of the idea that かかる in this case is used in the meaning of "hanging on". "There was a lot hanging on winning the game" or maybe "Winning the game hangs on Zlatan's right leg" or whatever.

Last edited by Tobberoth (2010 January 15, 12:22 pm)

Could "優勝がかかる" be another way to say "優負を左右する"?

Here, it isn't the "for the purpose of" meaning. It's just a double particle に＋は. So the topic is 学校に.  Similarly, you'll sometimes see とは and では. In this particular case, I think the に　could be omitted (but I could be wrong about that.)

Edit: See Notes (3) in your book - must be an action noun to have the "purpose of" meaning.

Last edited by Thora (2010 January 16, 12:54 am)

Sorry for my late reply, but thank you guys so much!
I read your thread, Icecream! Thank you very much for writing it out! It made some things clearer, but I guess I need to see those points more in books etc, to understand them completely.
Again, thank you guys!

EDIT: Quick question about 得る. Is it correct that this verb can be read as うる/える in dictionary form, but all other conjugations are える? For example 得れば - can it be read as うる as well?

Last edited by Zorlee (2010 January 16, 3:11 pm)