brandon7s wrote:

妹：　「どうしたのお姉ちゃん」
お姉さん：　「いや　ちょっと　ちゃんと足下ろして座ってみ」

ってみ is the same as ってみろ, just weaker and more intimate. Nobue is trying this hard to sound soft because she is setting Chika a trap and doesn't want to raise suspicions, I guess. She's usually quite rude.

I'd translate it as "would you put your leg down and sit properly for a sec?"

Last edited by iSoron (2010 January 10, 5:11 pm)

mr_hans_moleman wrote:

>
転がる夢なんだよ、追いかけていたいのは・・・

Here's an easy to understand example:
夢を追いかける男は魅力的だ

ドラマなんか見てますと、ドロボーを追いかけるとき決まって「待てえ~!」と叫んでます

追いかける is a full word by the way.

Ah thank you. >.< I didn't know 追いかける was a full word. Arrrrgh! That might have made things easier... but thanks! I knew I could count on the people at Kanji Koohii to help me out

Thank you guys! I'll go with はいる then!
Icecream: なかなか... Must that thing slowly burn...

Since you guys are still here, I wanted to ask about a grammar point I stumbled across in todays session with KM2:

日本の会社で働く上で、注意しなければならないことは何でしょうか。
法律の上では平等でも、現実には不平等なことがある。
酒の上でも、言ってはいけないことがある。
立春は暦の上での春です。

These are four sentences (unrelated, obviously) from the 上で section of Kanzen Master 2級. I knew from before that 上で can mean after/upon, but I just can't make sense of that grammar point in these sentences, I can wing the meaning, but that kind of messes up the reason why I'm going through KM2, hehe.
The explanation in the book is:
〈その時、その場面、その条件のはんいで〜だ、と言いたい時に使う。〉
I still don't get the function - does it have a "after that" feel to it, or is it more a usage to bring up a subject like って？
Thanks!

Last edited by Zorlee (2010 January 10, 2:27 pm)

http://hirog.fonfun.co.jp/item/234

S= sadist

M= masochist

brandon7s wrote:

iSoron wrote:

ってみ is the same as ってみろ, just weaker and more intimate. Nobue is trying this hard to sound soft because she is setting Chika a trap and doesn't want to raise suspicions, I guess. She's usually quite rude.

I've not been able to find anything on ってみろ either... anyone have a link I can look up?

みる is here an auxiliary verb which means "to try / to attempt". 座ってみる means "to try to sit down". 座ってみ in this case means "try to have a sit".

Zorlee wrote:

日本の会社で働く上で、注意しなければならないことは何でしょうか。
法律の上では平等でも、現実には不平等なことがある。
酒の上でも、言ってはいけないことがある。
立春は暦の上での春です。

These are four sentences (unrelated, obviously) from the 上で section of Kanzen Master 2級. I knew from before that 上で can mean after/upon, but I just can't make sense of that grammar point in these sentences, I can wing the meaning, but that kind of messes up the reason why I'm going through KM2, hehe.
The explanation in the book is:
〈その時、その場面、その条件のはんいで〜だ、と言いたい時に使う。〉
I still don't get the function - does it have a "after that" feel to it, or is it more a usage to bring up a subject like って？

There's no 'after that' meaning if the verb is present-tense, no. My grammar reference says that Nの上で is generally used where the N is some source of data (chart, table, law, etc) and the meaning is roughly その情報によると -- "even if they are equal according to/under the/in law...". (I see that the 酒 example doesn't really fit with that, and is probably more like the V meaning.) V上で is 何かをする場合/過程の中で and introduces some sort of 注意点 or 問題点. "If you are working at a Japanese company..." (With a past tense verb it does mean V first and introduces a second action done on the basis of V having been done.)

I would personally never trust KM's grammar explanations except as a reminder of something you already know -- they're just too brief.

Zorlee wrote:

Thank you very much! That made sense!
Your reference wouldn't happen to be 日本語教師と学習者のための文法辞典？
I took a look in mine, and it matched your explanation.

Yes (although I think the title is (教師と学習者のための) 日本語文型辞典).

Zorlee wrote:

Pm: Yeah, that's right

I hope it's alright that I ask one of you for some help with today's confusing sentences:

この鳥は目のまわりが白いことから、メジロと呼ばれている。
This 目 usage, does it mean "center" or something like that? Or view/viewpoint?
I haven't seen this usage before...

あの人は、アメリカへ行ったきりだ。
I don't really understand the きり usage here. I understand stuff like 二人きり and the likes, but this sentence threw me a bit off.

子供の教育という点から見ると、豊かすぎる生活は、必ずしもいいとは言えない。
This one... I don't know, I thought I understood it, but then again I didn't.
Does it mean something like: "In Education for Children - (if one looks/thinks from the viewpoint of it) - it doesn't say anything about - that it's not always a good thing to have a luxurious lifestyle."
No? I guess I'm confused about the 点 meaning (my guess is viewpoint/standpoint), plus the とは at the end.

Thank you guys so much! I really really appreciate it!

目 means eye. The sentence is about the めじろ, a bird with white circles around the eyes.

I'm not 100% sure about this one myself since I've never seen きり used like that. It SHOULD mean "That person has only been to America". It seems to be used in some form of ideomatic phrase, 行ったきり帰ってこない though I don't get what it means.

"If you think about education/upbringing of children, you can't say that it's definitely a good thing to have an overly luxurious lifestyle." 点から見ると here simply means that an overly luxurious lifestyle can be definitely nice in lots of ways, but the sentence is only talking about when you're thinking about childrens upbringing.

Last edited by Tobberoth (2010 January 11, 3:49 pm)

IceCream wrote:

i think in the second one, きり means "as far as".
in Tobberoth's, 行ったきり帰ってこない i think it's "since" (since they left they didn't come back).

i also think the とは in the 3rd one is short for ということは (or could be replaced with it)...

Actually, I looked it up in kanzen master (where the sentence is from). In this type of sentences, きり means "〜たままの状態が続いている。".

Therefor, the sentence actually means "That person has gone to America (and is still there)". This also explains the usage in 行ったきりかえってこない. Another example from the same source is 寝たきり老人が増えている。(It's becoming more common with old people sleeping (and never waking up)).

EDIT: Just like thatkidpercy said.

Last edited by Tobberoth (2010 January 11, 4:03 pm)

Hahahaha! I now understand why I didn't understand the 目 sentence. I read 鳥 as 島... Oh, Kanji, thou art a heartless bitch.

Wow, thank you guys for the fast replies!
You guys are the best!

pm215 wrote:

Tobberoth wrote:

Another example from the same source is 寝たきり老人が増えている。(It's becoming more common with old people sleeping (and never waking up)).

Watch out: 寝たきり means "confined to bed; bedridden", not "going to sleep and never waking up". (ie it is from the 寝床に入る sense of 寝る, not the 眠る sense.) EDICT and EXCEED have specific entries for 寝たきり, incidentally, presumably in an attempt to help people avoid this particular elephant trap.

Whaaat, that makes no sense. This is something Kanzen master should have mentioned.

Ok, I'm starting to think that I've used up my share of this thread, but anyway - here's some confusing sentences from todays session:

私は警官としてしなければならないことをしたにすぎません。
Does this mean "I, as a policaman, did nothing but what had to be done"
I'm not confused about the grammar point (にすぎません), but I'm sometimes confused about the past tense in Japanese. I'm thinking - shouldn't it be ませんでした, if my interpretation should fit the bill? Or does it stand alone as a "pure grammar"?

頭がいい人ほど自慢しない。
Does this mean something like: "The smarter/brighter a person is (by the degree/extent of his brightness), the less does he brag (about it)" - I know it's a loose translation, but the ほど here means extent/degree, right?

有名人であればあるほどストレスも大きいのではないだろうか。
I don't get the の in there. Anyone?

デパートへ買い物に行ったついでに、着物の展示会を見て来た。
The 来た at the end, does it mean (in combination with 見て) "started to look (at)" (or something like that). I tried looking it up in my grammar-book, but it had 7 entries regarding the てくる grammar, so... I kind of gave up