Zorlee wrote:

Thank you guys!
Quick question about a Kanzen Master sentence:

国会議員をはじめとする視察団が被災地を訪れた。

Now, I thought I understood the をはじめ grammar, but this sentence threw me off.
Does it mean (something like) "Not only did 国会議員 visit the area that was struck (by whatever), the observation-group did as well." Or (probably more likely): "Starting with 国会議員, the observation-group visited the area struck".
I'm really not sure...

Thanks!

The とする modifies 視察団; my understanding of this sentence is a little shaky but I would read it as "Observation groups, beginning with 国会議員 (and then other groups after that) visited the area struck."  Another possible reading is that the 視察団 consists first of 国会議員 and then others, but I think the former is more likely.

Thank you guys!
I generally like the Kanzen Master's short explanations, but sometimes I need extra information to grasp the meaning!

When we're at it, a veeery basic question:
疲れていたので、ベッドに入ったとたんに、眠ってしまった。
The reading of 入る always bugs me in present/past tense.
I know that はいる is the transative verb and いる is the intransative (right?)
Does that mean that this example is はいる? Since the subject is doing the action himself? Google didn't help me out, and I'm currently on my knees, swearing not to rely on furigana all the time, hehe!
I usually get the intransative/transative thing, but certain verbs like 入る and 開く trips me out from time to time...　

Thanks! 

Last edited by Zorlee (2010 January 06, 9:30 am)

入る（いる） is not really used much in the modern language outside of some compounds like 入り口 and some set phrases.  Even though 入る can theoretically be read as はいる or いる, it's almost always going to be はいる in modern Japanese.  So as pm215 said, the transitive is 入れる（いれる） and the intransitive is 入る(はいる）, so the okurigana should be able to make things clear.

Last edited by yudantaiteki (2010 January 06, 10:06 am)

Heh, I totally forgot about 入り口 :-)  There is one case where the okurigana aren't sufficient to distinguish: いれる (plain form) vs はいれる (potential); look at particles and context.

yudantaiteki wrote:

入る（いる） is not really used much in the modern language outside of some compounds like 入り口 and some set phrases.  Even though 入る can theoretically be read as はいる or いる, it's almost always going to be はいる in modern Japanese.  So as pm215 said, the transitive is 入れる（いれる） and the intransitive is 入る(はいる）, so the okurigana should be able to make things clear.

気に入った（きにいった） probably being one of the more important set phrases.

"Plan for things to go according to plan," is inane.  I think you're tripped up by the fact that 予定 and 計画 don't really mean the same thing: 予定 is what you plan to accomplish, 計画 is how you plan to do it. 

予定　これから行うことを前もって決めておくこと。

計画　あることを行うために、あらかじめその手順・方法などを考えること。

(実に、I'm not sure if that's any less inane.  "Make a plan to succeed."  Sure.  Will do.)

Last edited by wildweathel (2010 January 07, 1:49 pm)

This is kind of an interesting sentences from KO:

娘が結婚する。相手は２つ年下だ。
"My daughter is getting married.  Her fiance (lit. partner) is 2 years older than her."

I don't see how her fiance is 2 years older than she is. He should be two years younger right? I mean topic switches to her fiancee when the 2 year younger thing is mentioned, right? Very strange!

@brandon7s:

研究者和英大辞典 wrote:

ぽっこり
=ぽっかり.

父はお腹がぽっこり出ていてあまりかっこよくない. My father doesn't look very good with his stomach sticking out.

研究者和英大辞典 wrote:

ぽっかり
1 〈軽く浮かぶさま〉 lightly
•空にぽっかり浮かぶ白い雲 a white cloud floating in the sky
→✍
2 〈穴が口を開けているさま〉 open; wide open
•ぽっかりあいた大穴 a large gaping hole.

Thanks guys - that clears it up for me.

同じ労力を費やすならより楽しく

I'm guessing the hard part for you here is the より part.

Look at this:
一緒ならより楽しい

＞
転がる夢なんだよ、追いかけていたいのは・・・

Here's an easy to understand example:
夢を追いかける男は魅力的だ

ドラマなんか見てますと、ドロボーを追いかけるとき決まって「待てえ～！」と叫んでます

追いかける is a full word by the way.

brandon7s wrote:

Another one from Ichigo Mashimaro.

Girl 1:「お姉ちゃん、ノックしてよもう」
Girl 2:「したけど、気づかんかったら」

It was easy enough until I hit 気づかんかったら. Looks like a form of 気づく, but what kind of form is what I'm having trouble with.

Shortening of 気づかなかったら (な→ん).

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2010 January 10, 4:18 am)

brandon7s wrote:

Jarvik7 wrote:

Shortening of 気づかなかったら (な→ん).

Dang, I knew it was something simple. Thanks!

While I'm here, another quick question: I've run across the word 座ってみ, I cannot find anything on tae kim's guide (unfortunately, the only grammar "dictionary" I have at the moment) about the ってみ conjugation. Unless this isn't a form of the verb at all, but a separate word. So hard to tell without kanji. Grr...

Is there a better way for me to look these kind of things up other than tae kim?

For more grammar references use this link to help - http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/

Tae Kim would be equivalent of JLPT 4 and 3. The Tanos site is JLPT 2 and 1 since it uses the Kanzen Master books for its entries. What I did was save it locally, then use Firefox's find function to quickly look for grammar point.

As for your question, I'd guess it's 座ってみて下さい shortened, but that's just a wild ass guess at best.　I only heard it where it implies "Try it" type suggestion such as 食べてみ　and 食ってみ.

Last edited by Nukemarine (2010 January 10, 5:41 am)