The "What's this word/phrase?" thread

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Reply #7051 - May 29, 5:42 am
Termy Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2014-03-22 Posts: 74

Is the word 流行 more often pronounced はやり or りゅうこう? Is it often used with する, and if so, is either of those two pronunciations more common?

Reply #7052 - May 29, 6:03 am
Vempele Member
Registered: 2013-06-16 Posts: 615

I'd expect はやり to be written 流行り. The verb for 流行り is 流行る, so 流行する is always りゅうこう.

Reply #7053 - May 29, 6:05 am
iSoron Member
From: Canada Registered: 2008-03-24 Posts: 490

Termy wrote:

Is the word 流行 more often pronounced はやり or りゅうこう? Is it often used with する, and if so, is either of those two pronunciations more common?

In my experience, 流行 is usually pronounced as りゅうこう. It can be used both as a suru-verb or a noun. Both are common.

        若い女性の間で流行しているヘアスタイル
        A hairstyle that is all the fashion [rage] among young women.

        夏の日傘は一時の流行ではなく, いまやすっかり定着した.
        Using a parasol in summer was not a passing fad. On the contrary, it has now come to stay.

流行り, on the other hand, is pronounced as はやり. You can easily tell them apart by the okurigana. I don't think it is as common as りゅうこう. There is also a verb 流行る.

        新しく出来た市立図書館は大流行りです。
        The new city library has been a big success.

        その色はもう流行っていない.
        That color is no longer in fashion.

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Reply #7054 - May 29, 6:07 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

In speech, at least, はやる is more common than りゅうこう I think.

EDIT: And yeah, Vempele makes a good point: 流行 is a sequence of characters that can represent two different words depending on the context.  The words exist apart from how they are written down.

Last edited by yudantaiteki (May 29, 7:44 am)

Reply #7055 - May 29, 6:54 am
Vempele Member
Registered: 2013-06-16 Posts: 615

Termy wrote:

Is the word

Nonono. They're two unrelated words, not pronunciations of the same word. EDICT just likes to put multiple words in the same entry if they have a spelling in common. EDICT also tends to include all possible spellings of a word, plus some that aren't...

Last edited by Vempele (May 29, 7:19 am)

Reply #7056 - May 29, 8:36 am
Termy Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2014-03-22 Posts: 74

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Reply #7057 - May 31, 12:35 am
learningkanji Member
Registered: 2013-03-15 Posts: 160

Something I've been thinking about every time this card came up:

この町には消防署が1つしかありません。 (There's only one fire station in this town.)

From what I see it says: In this town, fire station 1 only doesn't exist

I was just wondering how it works out to be that only 1 station exists.

Reply #7058 - May 31, 3:37 am
EratiK Member
From: Paris Registered: 2010-07-15 Posts: 874

learningkanji wrote:

Something I've been thinking about every time this card came up:

この町には消防署が1つしかありません。 (There's only one fire station in this town.)

From what I see it says: In this town, fire station 1 only doesn't exist

I was just wondering how it works out to be that only 1 station exists.

You have to keep in mind while 1:1 literal translation can be helpful, language doesn't really work that way (and that's why automatic translators are still bad). I think it's the wrong idea to use "only" in your literal translation because しか is used with negative structures. So in English that would give something like "there is no other fire station than one", "there is no more than one fire station", "there's nothing but one fire station".

I guess you could say しか is a negative marker, and with a negative verb it makes a double-negative ie a positive (not only one fire station doesn't exist). See DOBJG p398.

Last edited by EratiK (May 31, 4:02 am)

Reply #7059 - May 31, 4:33 am
Vempele Member
Registered: 2013-06-16 Posts: 615

It's helpful to search grammar guides for these things: Tae Kim has an article with しか in the title.

Also, when EDICT says something goes with a negative verb, the definition assumes a negative verb, so what it really meant was "しか...ない->only; nothing but".

Last edited by Vempele (May 31, 5:05 am)

Reply #7060 - May 31, 10:58 am
Vempele Member
Registered: 2013-06-16 Posts: 615

やばい。これじゃ火に油って言うか,魔法使いにラブプ〇スだ……

What's that censored word?

Reply #7061 - May 31, 11:04 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

Possibly ラブプラス, a video game?  You sometimes see that "censoring" as kind of a joke.

Reply #7062 - May 31, 11:28 am
Vempele Member
Registered: 2013-06-16 Posts: 615

Thanks. This VN is only a few months newer than that game... but I guess it could be referring to getting love points with a 魔法使い, which would be somehow...dangerous? Still doesn't make terribly much sense, but then the whole thing is just an idle thought she dismisses a moment later anyway.

Last edited by Vempele (May 31, 1:15 pm)

Reply #7063 - May 31, 1:04 pm
learningkanji Member
Registered: 2013-03-15 Posts: 160

Thanks. The sentence was from a premade core deck so I didn't translate anything. It makes a bit more sense now.

Reply #7064 - May 31, 5:36 pm
tashippy Member
From: New York Registered: 2011-06-18 Posts: 566

What does it mean when someone says "ukeru"? I think it's slang.
Never mind. I figured it out. It's kinda like 'omoshiroi'.

Last edited by tashippy (May 31, 7:31 pm)

Reply #7065 - June 02, 12:01 pm
iSoron Member
From: Canada Registered: 2008-03-24 Posts: 490

tashippy wrote:

What does it mean when someone says "ukeru"? I think it's slang.
Never mind. I figured it out. It's kinda like 'omoshiroi'.

It's more similar to 人気を得る "be popular".

    この漫画は小学生の間ですごく受けている.
    This cartoon is extremely popular among primary school children.

Reply #7066 - June 02, 12:09 pm
Kuzunoha13 Member
Registered: 2013-11-06 Posts: 96

Some agglutination confusion.

現れやがりなさいましたね
やがる - used for contempt
なさい - Isn't this imperative?
ました - past tense

The line is spoken after a someone shows up. Mainly, I'm wondering what the なさい bit is used to indicate, if it's past tense.

Reply #7067 - June 02, 1:06 pm
Splatted Member
From: England Registered: 2010-10-02 Posts: 776

なすis it's own word (means "to do") , so なさいました is just the past masu form of なす.

Reply #7068 - June 02, 1:11 pm
Vempele Member
Registered: 2013-06-16 Posts: 615

It's なさる (honorific equivalent of する), nor なす. Other verbs that conjugate this way (aる->aい) include 仰る, いらっしゃる and 下さる (honorifics of 言う, 行く/来る/いる and くれる, respectively). The naked -masu stem of these verbs is also an imperative, hence -なさい and -てください.

Anyway, appending なさる wouldn't normally add anything to the meaning, but rude + honorific -> sarcasm.

Last edited by Vempele (June 02, 1:22 pm)

Reply #7069 - June 02, 5:41 pm
drdunlap Member
From: 水の都 Registered: 2009-06-01 Posts: 364 Website

iSoron wrote:

tashippy wrote:

What does it mean when someone says "ukeru"? I think it's slang.
Never mind. I figured it out. It's kinda like 'omoshiroi'.

It's more similar to 人気を得る "be popular".

    この漫画は小学生の間ですごく受けている.
    This cartoon is extremely popular among primary school children.

ウケる is the opposite of スベる in slang.
ウケる means that someone successfully made a good joke.
スベる means that someone failed at making a joke.
Sometimes failing can be just as funny as succeeding. Just like English. But you would still say スベる.

Reply #7070 - June 02, 7:39 pm
Kuzunoha13 Member
Registered: 2013-11-06 Posts: 96

Thanks! That made it a lot easier to look up. I also found out it's the same kanji used in variants of ため and なる.

Reply #7071 - June 03, 6:50 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

It's never written in kanji, though.

Reply #7072 - June 03, 9:25 am
Kuzunoha13 Member
Registered: 2013-11-06 Posts: 96

Yeah, but I've actually seen たくさん as 沢山 a couple times, so ever since then I've been a little paranoid, haha.

Reply #7073 - June 05, 1:26 am
jishera Member
From: California Registered: 2011-01-19 Posts: 179

Some words have a different pronunciation than I would expect. When I looked up these kanji, I didn't see these pronunciations listed under onyomi or kunyomi.

For example:

葉隠れ - はがくれ - Hidden leaves
Looking at each kanji, I would expect this to be はかくれ instead. (Is this a phrase…or a word?)

中国人 - ちゅうごくじん - Chinese person
I thought this would be ちゅうこくじん like in 外国人 (がいこくじん)

Is there a term for these inconsistencies? Is there a pattern? Or do I just need to memorize these? :-)

Is this to make it easier to pronounce/roll off the tongue?

Thanks!

Reply #7074 - June 05, 1:56 am
Vempele Member
Registered: 2013-06-16 Posts: 615

It's called 連濁 and there are patterns, but it's not fully predictable. http://www.tofugu.com/guides/rendaku-se … l-voicing/

Reply #7075 - June 05, 2:42 am
jishera Member
From: California Registered: 2011-01-19 Posts: 179

Thanks, that is very helpful. Since I didn't know the term 連濁 I wasn't finding anything relevant. I don't think my textbooks mentioned it. It's been bugging me for a while!