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That seems very much like the particle to me... "Even the boundaries in the dressing rooms are disappearing". I don't see what's wrong.
東京は愛せど何も無い
what's this 愛せど ?
jpkuelho wrote:
東京は愛せど何も無い
what's this 愛せど ?
I like Shiina Ringo too
jpkuelho wrote:
東京は愛せど何も無い
what's this 愛せど ?
愛する(causative,stem)+度
"Tokyo doesn't allow any love".
(It could also be the potential stem, but then I'd expect では instead of は, but even if that's the case 'Love is impossible in Tokyo' is nearly the same so I'm not stressed about which it is.)
Thank you chris :]
Never seen ~せど before, but I'm not convinced by the "causative or potential stem plus 度" theory here. I did a bit of googling and found some examples other than the lyric:
愛せど捨てましょう
君を愛せど夜は遠く
恋せどせずとも、マリはマリ
猫を恋せど、猫アレルギー なんてことになるとちょっと悲しい
...which to me (especially #3 with the contrast with せず) suggest it's more like でも or しても. There seems to be a lot of title/lyrics/phrase kind of use and I really struggled to find a use in running text, so I have a suspicion it's a relic from classical Japanese. Can any of the classical Japanese scholars here confirm/deny this guess?
I agree with pm215 on this one - I don't think it's caus / pot + 度. That doesn't make any sense to me.
I've never seen ど alone like that, but my guess would be that it's similar to ども, the one you can find in expressions like 行けども行けども山また山。I'm not sure about this, because it's obviously 古語, but 愛せ is the imperative form of 愛する, just like 行け is the imperative form of 行く. It seems to me that the usage back in the days were imp + ども / ど.
If I'm right, then this ど means ...けれども / ...だが
That being said, I have no idea if this results into 東京は愛しても or 愛しているけれども or even 愛していたが...
I have no idea how the verb functions in these old structures. Somebody help us out?
From Yahoo:
ど
[接助]活用語の已然形に付く。
1 逆接の確定条件を表す。…が、しかし。…けれども。
「さばかりおぼしたれ―、限りこそありけれ」〈源・桐壺〉
2 上の事柄を受け、それを条件として予想されることに反する事柄がいつも起こることを表す。…の場合でも、きまって。…ても。
「よき人の物語するは、人あまたあれ―、一人に向きて言ふを、おのづから人も聞くにこそあれ」〈徒然・五六〉
◆「ども」と同じ意味・用法をもつが、中古から中世にかけて、漢文訓読文系統では「ども」が多用されているのに対し、仮名日記系統では「ど」が圧倒的に多かった。中世中ごろからは女性も「ども」を多く用い、「ど」は衰えた。現代語では文章語として、「といえど」「と思えど」「待てど暮せど」など慣用的表現に用いられる。
ども
[接助]《接続助詞「ど」+係助詞「も」から》活用語の已然形に付く。
1 逆接の確定条件を表す。…けれども。…だが。「行け―行け―山また山」
「日も暮るれ―、あやしのふしどへも帰らず」〈平家・三〉
2 上の事柄を受け、それを条件として予想されることに反する事柄がいつも起こることを表す。…の場合でも、きまって。
「このころの恋の繁けく夏草の刈り払へ―生(お)ひしくごとし」〈万・一九八四〉
◆中古の「ども」は漢文訓読文に多くみられるが、中世後期以降は「ど」より優勢となる。2は、中世以後「たとひ」などと呼応して、逆接仮定条件のように用いられることもある。現代語では文章語として用いられる。→と言えども
Another site regarding this ど / ども:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/bunpou/totomododomoC.htm
愛せど is the classical form of 愛するけど. せ in this case is the 已然形 of す (modern する) and ど gets attached to it. This isn't the 命令形 even though the form might look the same.
Last edited by yudantaiteki (2011 September 11, 2:56 am)
Sentence from Core6000:
彼はインタビューに、はきはきと答えてたよ。
He eagerly answered questions in the interview.
Having trouble working out why it isn't インタビューで
Last edited by SammyB (2011 September 08, 10:41 pm)
SammyB wrote:
Sentence from Core6000:
彼はインタビューに、はきはきと答えてたよ。
He eagerly answered questions in the interview.
Having trouble working out why it isn't インタビューで
Either will work just fine. The に version focuses more on what he was answering while "where" or "when" is emphasized if you use で instead. It might be a bit odd to say "answer the interview" in English, but インタビューに答える is fine and means "answer the interview question(s)." In short, インタビュー can mean either a meeting to get information about you or questions about yourself, your opinions, etc. If anything, the latter sense is much more common, and some may think the "meeting" sense is wrong. So the に version is probably more frequent. Anyway, the meanings of "interview" and "インタビュー" are slightly different to people who don't admit the less common, English meaning.
But I think this example has a bigger problem. I don't know where you got this translation, but I don't think the original Japanese means he "eagerly" answered questions. The original sentence means that his answers were clear and he sounded confident in the interview. はきはき does imply a certain degree of liveliness. But "eager" sounds too strong for its translation to me.
Last edited by magamo (2011 September 08, 11:12 pm)
From a survey of 'インタビューで' and 'インタビューに' searches on alc.co.jp, I'm going to conclude that it's because the verb is 答える, and so is directly an answer 'to' an interview question, while a verb like 述べる could take で and be more like something said 'at' or 'during' an interview.
It also seems to me that "answered the interviewer" is the better translation, as インタビュー can mean both the question-and-answer session and the person conducting it and if it means a person then that's an obvious case of 人に答える which is clear enough grammar.
Edit:
Yahoo's dictionary may not be complete, but I don't believe that 'interview question' is a possible definition of インタビュー ...
インタビュー【interview】
[名](スル)報道記者などが取材のために人と会って話を聞くこと。また、その記事。「優勝力士に―する」
I can easily see how it can be その記者に答えた, but 話を聞くことに答えた seems quite unlikely to me.
Last edited by SomeCallMeChris (2011 September 08, 11:15 pm)
Every time I see a Magamo post I want to Report it. . .for being awesome.
Thanks magamo.
SomeCallMeChris wrote:
From a survey of 'インタビューで' and 'インタビューに' searches on alc.co.jp, I'm going to conclude that it's because the verb is 答える, and so is directly an answer 'to' an interview question, while a verb like 述べる could take で and be more like something said 'at' or 'during' an interview.
It also seems to me that "answered the interviewer" is the better translation, as インタビュー can mean both the question-and-answer session and the person conducting it and if it means a person then that's an obvious case of 人に答える which is clear enough grammar.
Edit:
Yahoo's dictionary may not be complete, but I don't believe that 'interview question' is a possible definition of インタビュー ...
インタビュー【interview】
[名](スル)報道記者などが取材のために人と会って話を聞くこと。また、その記事。「優勝力士に―する」
I can easily see how it can be その記者に答えた, but 話を聞くことに答えた seems quite unlikely to me.
I don't know where to begin, but インタビュー does mean questions. Or more precisely, it is a special kind of 質問; question and 質問 are slightly different, though it's the same difference and the difference rarely matters. Anyway, as the definition you cited says, it's a noun which is typically followed by verb する. And this roughly means "to interview (someone)." The same goes for 質問. You use this noun as in ねぇねぇ、ちょっと質問していい? This might sound strange if you see "question" and 質問 as exactly the same concept. But this is how 質問 and インタビュー work in Japanese.
Also, 答える collocates with 質問, インタビュー, etc. I have no idea what you mean by 話を聞くことに答えた. It just looks like a strange Japanese sentence as if someone took a literal translation of each word straight from dictionary and put them together. I don't think translation works that way.
[Edit] Ah, I guess this might help clear your doubt. 質問 is defined as 分からないことや疑問の点などを尋ね、説明を求めること. But you use this word with verbs 答える, する etc. like 質問に答える. Of course, 説明を求めることに答える sounds strange. But it doesn't matter because replacing a word in a sentence with its definition in a dictionary proves absolutely nothing.
And you said インタビュー means "interviewer," which I don't think it does. It doesn't mean "interviewee" either by the way. Americans seem to use "interview" to mean "interviewee," but this has nothing to do with インタビュー.
述べる is quite different in meaning from 答える. I'm not sure if it's got to do with his question...
[Edit2] I almost forgot, but there is another difference between インタビュー and interview. In English, "interview" can mean "job interview." But this is usually called 面接. I heard university professors and other English-Japanese bilinguals use インタビュー to mean "job interview", but this usage isn't as common. When it means a Q&A session, a typical situation is a TV reporter asking questions to a random guy on the street or a journalist interviewing a celebrity/politician/artist or something along those lines. This may not be directly related to SammyB's question. But maybe it's important nonetheless especially if you pictured a job interview when you read the Japanese sentence.
Last edited by magamo (2011 September 09, 12:08 am)
Hmm, the question was about 'why に in インタビューに答えた', so it's not a matter of any translation that I came up with that strange-sounding Japanese but within Japanese, trying to fit one J->J definition of インタビュー into the sentence and then the other. It looks to me like one definition fit into the usage in question, and the other did not.
However, if you're quite sure that インタビュー can mean the questions in an interview, then I can accept that, I know you know more Japanese than I do!
[ nevermind ] However, I can't accept that インタビュー never means the reporter. Dictionaries may leave things out, but it seems very strange to me that they would include a definition that is never used, and I'm pretty certain that また、その記者 means the interviewer.[ /nevermind ]
The point about 述べる was just that there are examples of people doing something 「インタビューで」, 'stating' something during an interview, but maybe I didn't make the point clearly. I didn't mean to say that 述べる and 答える are the same. They aren't, of course, just as 'state' and 'answer' aren't. I was just saying there are examples of people doing things インタビューで and インタビューに, which is a whole lot of words at this point to say that に doesn't always go with インタビュー but often does go with 答える. Sorry for any confusion I caused there.
As an aside, in English, I don't think 'interview' as a noun means the interviewee except within journalist's jargon. I think we all hear enough from journalists to recognize the usage when we hear it though.
Last edited by SomeCallMeChris (2011 September 09, 12:30 am)
記事 not 記者
Oh, I totally misread that! Oops.... Well, then, that wouldn't fit the usage either and there's no reason to think インタビュー can mean the reporter. Sorry for stirring up trouble over nothing!
@SomeCallMeChris
It's quite hard to explain how bringing up 述べる confused me, but one reason is that that verb just doesn't match the tone of the original sentence.
As you probably already know, インタビューに述べる isn't grammatical unless インタビュー is the name of a person or something like that. But if it were インタビューで述べる, then it must be something along the line of インタビューではきはきと述べていた, which sounds slightly odd. In short, はきはき and 述べる don't go very well. It's not wrong, and native speakers may say it. But a careful writer would avoid such combinations, except when he deliberately uses it for an effect. はっきりと述べる is ok, and はきはきと答える is fine too. But はきはき and 述べる don't go together as smoothly. 述べる is a little too stiff a word for はきはき. It's not simply about difference in formality either. It's more like 述べる isn't the kind of action はきはき typically describes while はきはきと答える is a good example for usage. So these two actions fall into different categories in my mind.
There are some other reasons why it looked like you brought up an unrelated verb from nowhere, e.g., what kind of direct object is typically implied when 述べる is used. But basically it's just because they belong to different classes in my mind and also because one sounds fine in the sentence and the other doesn't because of its meaning, grammar, and usage. Sorry if I sounded like I was saying you didn't make sense.
Last edited by magamo (2011 September 09, 1:31 am)
Yeah I'm not sure why it's translated like that, my dictionary says "clearly and concisely", as you suggested.
But it's not the first time I've found unusual translation in Core 2000/6000. I generally look up words I've not seen before in "The Wisdom" to get a better feel anyway... Thanks for clearing up the で/に nuances though.
I was watching an episode of the new 遊☆戯☆王 (ゼアル), and the main character keeps on saying "かっとビングだぜ、オレ!!", even the title of the first episode is named after that. Any idea what that would mean? Thanks in advance ![]()
Last edited by jonuhey (2011 September 10, 10:57 pm)
Hello
I'm trying to have a go at reading IQ84 but hardly a few sentences in and I've found something I don't understand
運転手もとくに熱心にその音楽に耳を澄ませているようには見えなかった
The driver too had particular enthusiasm for the music
耳を澄ませている
something is occurring to the driver's ears here but I'm not sure what. Ears clearing? Or is this idiomatic?
It ends with
ようには見えなかった
in order that (he?) can't be seen.
I'm skipping it for now but if anyone can point me in the right direction that'd be great.
Balaam wrote:
運転手もとくに熱心にその音楽に耳を澄ませているようには見えなかった
The driver too had particular enthusiasm for the music
耳を澄ませている
something is occurring to the driver's ears here but I'm not sure what. Ears clearing? Or is this idiomatic?
It's an idiom: 耳を澄ます : to listen carefully. It's in EDICT and other dictionaries.
It ends with
ようには見えなかった
in order that (he?) can't be seen.
Xように見える : it seems/appears like X; in this case you've got the negative form. This isn't the "in order to" meaning of ように, but even if it was you have it the wrong way round: XようにY is "in order to X, do Y", not "in order to Y, X". ように has a number of grammatical roles it can play; check your favourite grammar dictionary or reference.
So the whole lot gives you something like:
The driver didn't seem to be [listening to the music with any particular enthusiasm | particularly paying attention to the music] either.
Ah thank you, that's explained it very clearly.
Watching しゃべくり there was a question: 「最近いつチューした?」It was followed by a lot of the girls doing that typical hand gesture that seems correlated to the question.
Edit: What followed was one girl saying 「今日の朝!」
Last edited by TheVinster (2011 September 11, 6:07 pm)
チュー is kiss.
could anyone tell me what たまらん means? i see it all the time and im assuming its some form of たまらない but when i read the dictionary definition of たまらない(in english and in japanese) it still does not make any sense
here is a sentence i got from a youtube video
あの表情たまらんw
Last edited by Zon70 (2011 September 12, 7:50 pm)

