Can somebody give me a properly translation for this sentence? I have a general idea of it but can't seem it grasp it fully.

従来のスーパーマーケットよりも規模はかなり小さいが、食料品や日用雑貨をはじめ、雑誌や文具、衣料品ならたいていのものがそろう便利な店。

The first part is easy, something along the lines of "Convenience stores are fairly smaller than traditional supermarkets and...

My translation is something like '(Convenience store is) a convenient store that usually at at the beginning had magazines, stationary and even clothes, then has groceries and everyday goods.

Red is at which I kind of lost. なら　is along the lines of 'if' which doesn't make exact sense in this context.

Last edited by DevvaR (2011 July 04, 4:00 am)

what does 頑張らなければ mean?

i know 頑張る means but cant really wrap my head around なければ part. It was from this sentence from a blog

またまた、今日から

ハロコンのリハーサルdayです。

頑張らなければ～

Also check this part. It will explain ば
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/gr … nditionals

DevvaR wrote:

従来のスーパーマーケットよりも規模はかなり小さいが、食料品や日用雑貨をはじめ、雑誌や文具、衣料品ならたいていのものがそろう便利な店。
My translation is something like '(Convenience store is) a convenient store that usually at at the beginning had magazines, stationary and even clothes, then has groceries and everyday goods.

Red is at which I kind of lost. なら　is along the lines of 'if' which doesn't make exact sense in this context.

As SendaiDan says, Xをはじめ doesn't mean "at the beginning"; it's citing X as an obvious/primary/important member of some group (here "things you can get at convenience stores"). I just thought it was worth emphasising that it's probably better to treat it as a bit of idiom/grammar and not get hung up on a literal "beginning/start" meaning (sometimes "starting with X" works as a translation but I think it's often enough wrong that it's better not to have it in your head as the first thing you reach for).

(Nothing much more to add on なら except that this is basically the same as rather simpler sentences like "メイド服Lサイズならあります" -- which was just the first decent example I found on google, honest ^_^

@yudantaiteki: thanks for your replies before! Yeah, it's definately not Japanese Japanese sentences... so i won't worry about it too much.
......

This is more of a translation question than a meaning question, i guess.

私が言いたいのは特殊な現実の中にあっては――というのはもちろんこの馬鹿げたつるつるのエレベーターのことだ――非特殊性は逆説的特殊性として便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか、ということである。

"What i mean to say is that in this specific reality (being, of course, the absurd smoothness of the elevator), as it's undistinctiveness is, paradoxically, it's distinctiveness..."

how would you translate 「便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか、ということである」? i have no idea... i only know what it means from the context of what's been said before and after (at least, i hope i know hahah):

his writing is quite stream of consciousness like at this point, and so he's jumped around a few subjects. He talks about looking at counterfactuals in a way that only includes what is relevent as much as possible.
私はどちらかといえば様々な世界の事象・ものごと・存在を便宜的に考える方ではないかと自分では考えている。それは私が便宜的な性格の人間だからというのではなく――もちろんいくぶんそういう傾向があることは認めるが――便宜的にものごとを捉とらえる方が正統的な解釈よりそのものごとの本質の理解により近づいているような場合が世間には数多く見うけられるからである。
たとえば地球が球状の物体ではなく巨大なコーヒー・テーブルであると考えたところで、日常生活のレベルでいったいどれほどの不都合があるだろう？　もちろんこれはかなり極端な例であって、何もかもをそんな風に自分勝手に作りかえてしまうわけではない。しかし地球が巨大なコーヒー・テーブルであるという便宜的な考え方が、地球が球状であることによって生ずる様々な種類の瑣さ末まつな問題――たとえば引力や日付変更線や赤道といったようなたいして役に立ちそうにもないものごと――をきれいさっぱりと排除してくれることもまた事実である。ごく普通の生活を送っている人間にとって赤道などという問題にかかわらねばならないことが一生のうちにいったい何度あるというのだ？　というわけで私はできるだけ便宜的な視点からものごとを眺ながめようと心懸けている。
then talks about something else for a while, then comes to the quote above, which is directly followed by:
機械の手入れを怠ったり来訪者をエレベーターに乗せたきりあとの操作を忘れてしまうような不注意な人間がこれほど手のこんだエキセントリックなエレベーターを作ったりするものなのだろうか？　答はもちろんノオだった。 　そんなことはありえない。

don't know if you really need to know all that, but...

Last edited by IceCream (2011 July 06, 12:24 pm)

IceCream wrote:

This is more of a translation question than a meaning question, i guess.

私が言いたいのは特殊な現実の中にあっては――というのはもちろんこの馬鹿げたつるつるのエレベーターのことだ――非特殊性は逆説的特殊性として便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか、ということである。

"What i mean to say is that in this specific reality (being, of course, the absurd smoothness of the elevator), as it's undistinctiveness is, paradoxically, it's distinctiveness..."

how would you translate 「便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか、ということである」? i have no idea... i only know what it means from the context of what's been said before and after (at least, i hope i know hahah):

I had a stab at it but this kind of writing turns my head into mush...

"What I want to say is that in this specialised reality - by which I mean of course this absurd, smooth lift - is it not suitable to say that indistinctiveness is conveniently eliminated by it being paradoxical distinctiveness."

Last edited by pudding cat (2011 July 06, 11:38 am)

IceCream wrote:

hmm, but isn't it　「しかるべき」　「ではないか」...? as in ではないか is like a rhetorical question...?

Well a rhetorical question is just one that doesn't expect a reply so does it have a special phrasing?  To me it just sounds like the speaker is musing to himself.  With the bit at the beginning 「私が言いたいのは」　"What I want to say is..."  it's clear he's about to give his opinion and not actually pose a question.

IceCream wrote:

i think what he means is that in this situation, it's appropriate to leave out other possible worlds.

As the clause starts "非特殊性は" it seems likely that "排除されて" applies to '非特殊性'.  I'm not sure what you mean by other worlds but maybe that's because I haven't read whatever this quote is from?

IceCream wrote:

i don't think 便宜的 means "convenient" but more like "supposition" (whatever the adjective of that could be). But the に is confusing!!! Why isn't it を or something instead?

As far as I'm aware 便宜的 does mean something like 'conveniently'.  From goo「その場の都合がよいようにとりあえず物事を処理するさま。間に合わせ」 I'm not sure how you'd get the meaning as being 'supposition'. 

便宜的 is an adjective and the に makes it an adverb so it presumably is describing 排除されて.  I'm not sure how you'd get the meaning as being 'supposition'. 

I broke down the sentence like this.

非特殊性は(逆説的特殊性として)便宜的に排除されてしかるべきではないか
First ignore the bit in brackets.

非特殊性は便宜的に排除されてしかるべき
It is not appropriate to conveniently eliminate indistinctiveness?

The question is how is it able to be eliminated?  The answer is 逆説的特殊性として 'as paradoxical distinctiveness'

So putting it together:
"It is not appropriate to conveniently eliminate indistinctiveness as paradoxcial distinctiveness?"

and then I changed it a bit to make it sound more 'Englishy' to my mind

"Is it not suitable to say that indistinctiveness is conveniently eliminated by it being paradoxical distinctiveness?"

What a long post...

um... what's going on with the forum?!?

anyway, to get back to it:

oops, sorry, i misread your first post, i thought it said "it is not suitable" rather than "is it not suitable"

i found the official translation online:
"What i mean to say is that in a highly exceptional reality -this ridiculously slick elevator a case in point- the non-exceptional can, for convenience sake, be written off as paradoxically exceptional."

So yeah, i was reading too much into it. i know "conveniance" is a translation, but i thought something else would make more sense... because viewing the world as a giant coffee table isn't exactly the most conveniant way to look at it, but if you do look at it that way, what things would change as a result of that do come to light, which suggests the "supposition" thing...
...i'll stop thinking too hard then.

Anyway, thanks for the help!!! it's the として part i was parsing wrong then... the breakdown was really helpful, thanks!

Last edited by IceCream (2011 July 06, 1:42 pm)

Superfreek wrote:

IceCream wrote:

um... what's going on with the forum?!?

on the fourm question...

Do these spammers really think that this does something for them?  I cant even imagine how this generates income.  Anyway...rant over.

I read that some researchers did some work into the effectiveness of spam, and found that of 12 million spam emails that the researchers sent out, one sale was made. And because email is free, that's enough to make a profit.

The last part of this pixiv tag description is kind of confusing:

我々の業界ではご褒美ですとは、一般的に見ればとてもご褒美とは思えない行為が相手やそれを受ける人物によってご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである。

相手やそれを受ける人物 = the recipient or other person who would receive this act?

ご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである = the government murder industry contractor candidate who would purify this reward?

From - http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E6%88%91%E3%80% … 7%E3%81%99

Please help.

So I kind of disagree with puddingcat about this in a few places, but I'm not 100% certain of myself. So here's another opinion...

TheTrueBlue wrote:

The last part of this pixiv tag description is kind of confusing:

我々の業界ではご褒美ですとは、一般的に見ればとてもご褒美とは思えない行為が相手やそれを受ける人物によってご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである。

相手やそれを受ける人物 = the recipient or other person who would receive this act?

(行為)を受ける人物 : the person on the receiving end of the act. I don't think this is the "undertake" meaning of 受ける. 相手 in this case I guess is the other person, the one doing the act.

ご褒美に昇華するという他殺志願者業界御用達のタグである = the government murder industry contractor candidate who would purify this reward?

You've misparsed this, I think -- ご褒美に昇華する goes with the preceding part, so the whole phrase from the comma "[...]行為が[...]人物によってご褒美に昇華する" is what's being quoted by という here.

I had some difficulty nailing down 昇華する, but since this is the plain する form with
行為 as the subject I would avoid translating into a passive so I'd go for "attains the status of a reward".

So "一般的に見ればとてもご褒美とは思えない行為が相手やそれを受ける人物によってご褒美に昇華する" : actions which wouldn't seem at all like a reward to a normal person attain the status of a reward for the person receiving or giving them.

I would translate "我々の業界ではご褒美です" as "In our business that's a reward".

他殺志願者業界御用達 is a bit baffling, but (as you can tell from pudding cat's "It is a tag for [...]" phrasing) it's not critical for understanding the rest of the sentence.

The page describing origin and history that your original source links to is kind of informative, and has an alternate (and easier to understand :-)) definition:
「我々の業界ではご褒美です」 とは、一般的な人にとっては苦痛の原因だったり嫌悪する対象だったりするものが、別の特定の趣味、嗜好、あるいは性癖を持つ人、マニアにとっては、無上の喜びや愉悦の対象だったり、好物、ご馳走、嗜好品となることです。

Angeldust wrote:

It's: 多分今週は穏やかに過ごせるかな？

It's from 過ごす, the verb that signifies the passing of time.  The -eru gives it a meaning of 'to be able to.' 過ごせる, then, is 'will be able to pass.'  穏やかに is 'calmly.'

So, it means, "I wonder if (and think that probably) this week will be able to pass calmly."

'To be able to pass' is not really used in English in this case, so a literal translation is clunky.  In Japanese the -rareru/-eru form is often used to convey how the speaker would like things to be.  In this case the speaker wants it to be a calm week, so the -eru form is used.

The かな conveys that the speaker is wondering to himself, by asking himself a question.  Very often you will hear people mumble to themselves 「どうしたらいいかな」--"What should I do?"

Last edited by Tzadeck (2011 July 14, 11:04 pm)