The "What's this word/phrase?" thread

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Reply #3051 - 2011 June 10, 7:03 pm
Tzadeck Member
From: Kinki Registered: 2009-02-21 Posts: 2484

Elenkis wrote:

寝ているホームレスの人のそばを、近くの会社で働いている人が毎日急いで通ります。

Am I correct in thinking that the を particle is used as it's effectively marking a location for 通る because it's a motion verb, even though it's intransitive?

So it basically says something like: "Every day, people working at nearby companies hurriedly pass by beside sleeping homeless people."

When you're talking about doing a motion verb 'through' an area, such as walking through a park or something, what you are going through is marked by an を.  So, yes.

Reply #3052 - 2011 June 11, 6:16 pm
Elenkis Member
From: UK Registered: 2010-09-15 Posts: 97

Thanks for the confirmation!

Reply #3053 - 2011 June 11, 6:57 pm
Tolerence91 Member
From: Ohio USA Registered: 2010-04-20 Posts: 86

 汝 [うぬ]
(pn,adj-no,vulg) blockhead!; you

 汝 [なんじ, そなた]
(pn,adj-no,arch) thou; you

 汝 [い, しゃ]
(n,arch,vulg) you

 汝 [いまし]
(n,arch,fam) you

 汝 [し]
(n,arch) that; you; oneself; themself

 汝 [な]
(n,arch) I; you

 汝 [なむち, なれ, まし]
(pn,adj-no,arch) you

 汝 [みまし]
(n,arch,hon) you


woah...whats wrong here?

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Reply #3054 - 2011 June 11, 9:14 pm
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

Nothing.  There are a lot of words that mean "you", and a good number of them have used that kanji.  なんじ is by far the most common reading of that kanji in current Japanese, although I've seen some of the others in old Japanese.

Reply #3055 - 2011 June 11, 9:59 pm
nest0r Member
Registered: 2007-10-19 Posts: 5236 Website

This seems to refer back to what I was reading about Japanese content words including personal pronouns (whereas they're function words in English—or think of them as open and closed class); from what I've been reading, Japanese personal pronouns may be considered deictic, exophoric, varying with context but also subject to conventions (thus their categorisation as content words), hence they're often dropped because they aren't as generic and endophoric, though apparently all this is changing (due to English influence?). Basing this on a mixture of readings more than experience in Japanese, primarily that Japanese ellipsis and reference tracking book I linked somewhere else and am too lazy to relink.

Last edited by nest0r (2011 June 11, 10:01 pm)

Reply #3056 - 2011 June 13, 7:55 am
Tzadeck Member
From: Kinki Registered: 2009-02-21 Posts: 2484

I'm going through the Kanzen Master N1 grammar book, and it keeps using the phrase 「後ろには」 to explain grammar points.

Like ~が最後
「後ろには、必ずそうなるという状態や、話し手の意思を表す文がくる。」

Or for ~とあれば
「普通とは違う特別な状況が条件になっていることを表す。後ろには、その状況の時に当然起こると予想される状況や動作を表す文がくる。」

Could somebody explain the phrase?

Reply #3057 - 2011 June 13, 4:13 pm
pm215 Member
From: UK Registered: 2008-01-26 Posts: 1354

fakewookie wrote:

後ろ means behind, so in this case, it means what comes before what's given. That is, it's telling you what to put where the ~ is.

Er, what? 後ろ means behind, so we're talking about what comes afterwards... So for example with

普通とは違う特別な状況が条件になっていることを表す。後ろには、その状況の時に当然起こると予想される状況や動作を表す文がくる

and the example

だれも行かないとあれば、わたしが行くしかないだろう。

the その状況の時に当然起こると予想される状況や動作を表す文 is the わたしが行くしかないだろう bit.

Basically KM uses this pattern for grammar points that are conjunctions (joining two clauses) when there's some restriction on the kind of thing you can say in the following clause.

Reply #3058 - 2011 June 13, 6:27 pm
fakewookie Member
From: London Registered: 2010-08-02 Posts: 362

Ah, I see, my apologies. Deleted to avoid confusion. Doesn't help that I don't have that book. :3

Last edited by fakewookie (2011 June 13, 6:29 pm)

Reply #3059 - 2011 June 13, 6:59 pm
moomoox2 New member
From: US Registered: 2011-04-25 Posts: 7

Could anyone please translate this sentence for me? I'm unable to get the gist of it.

何かに関わるだけで、良かれと思った事でさえ、仇にしかならないというのな

I think most of the confusion for me lies within the "何かに関わるだけで" part...

Thank you very much!

Reply #3060 - 2011 June 13, 7:20 pm
Tzadeck Member
From: Kinki Registered: 2009-02-21 Posts: 2484

Thanks pm215!  It's one of those things that seems so obvious in retrospect.  Maybe I shouldn't study at night, haha.

Reply #3061 - 2011 June 13, 7:53 pm
nest0r Member
Registered: 2007-10-19 Posts: 5236 Website

moomoox2 wrote:

Could anyone please translate this sentence for me? I'm unable to get the gist of it.

何かに関わるだけで、良かれと思った事でさえ、仇にしかならないというのな

I think most of the confusion for me lies within the "何かに関わるだけで" part...

Thank you very much!

I suck at Japanese, but maybe:

You'll only get hurt as long as you're just concerned with things that benefit you?

Reply #3062 - 2011 June 13, 8:01 pm
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

moomoox2 wrote:

Could anyone please translate this sentence for me? I'm unable to get the gist of it.

何かに関わるだけで、良かれと思った事でさえ、仇にしかならないというのな

Xだけで means "Just by doing X", so this is "Just by getting involved in something..."
良かれ is the classical 命令形 of よし (modern いい), so it could mean "do it well" or "I hope it goes well" depending on the context.  Without the context it's hard to make a translation because I don't know who is thinking 良かれ or who is getting involved, or who is going to be the enemy.

(Side note, please don't italicize Japanese, it makes it annoying to read)

Last edited by yudantaiteki (2011 June 13, 8:03 pm)

Reply #3063 - 2011 June 14, 11:05 pm
Achromatize Member
From: California Registered: 2011-03-20 Posts: 17

Translation request please:
あなたの、御返事を、待っています。

I cannot find anything on those middle 3 kanji. I want to say it is sort of a polite way of saying "your answer is waiting" but I'm not sure.

Reply #3064 - 2011 June 14, 11:31 pm
kitakitsune Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-19 Posts: 1006

You can't find 御 and 返事 in a dictionary?

+ translation : we are waiting for your (honorable) reply.

Last edited by kitakitsune (2011 June 14, 11:39 pm)

Reply #3065 - 2011 June 14, 11:44 pm
Achromatize Member
From: California Registered: 2011-03-20 Posts: 17

Aaah, well see I haven't learned honorifics yet, being a first year Japanese student. I tried to translate it as an entire 3-kanji compound word and I got different answers on different website. Thank you!

Reply #3066 - 2011 June 15, 12:50 am
kitakitsune Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-19 Posts: 1006

You should check out rikaichan if you haven't already done that.

http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/

Reply #3067 - 2011 June 15, 12:51 am
Tzadeck Member
From: Kinki Registered: 2009-02-21 Posts: 2484

Achromatize wrote:

あなたの、御返事を、待っています。

What an, obnoxious way, to use commas.

Not that Japanese really has rules about it or anything.

Reply #3068 - 2011 June 15, 1:07 am
kitakitsune Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-19 Posts: 1006

Tzadeck wrote:

Achromatize wrote:

あなたの、御返事を、待っています。

What an, obnoxious way, to use commas.

Not that Japanese really has rules about it or anything.

Haha it's the exact same way that Japanese people who don't know I speak Japanese well talk to me.

Reply #3069 - 2011 June 15, 8:00 am
nest0r Member
Registered: 2007-10-19 Posts: 5236 Website

kitakitsune wrote:

You should check out rikaichan if you haven't already done that.

http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/

Why on earth would you link to this rather than the mod? Do you hate all that's noble and good in this universe?? ;p

Last edited by nest0r (2011 June 15, 8:00 am)

Reply #3070 - 2011 June 16, 3:11 pm
moomoox2 New member
From: US Registered: 2011-04-25 Posts: 7

yudantaiteki wrote:

moomoox2 wrote:

Could anyone please translate this sentence for me? I'm unable to get the gist of it.

何かに関わるだけで、良かれと思った事でさえ、仇にしかならないというのな

Xだけで means "Just by doing X", so this is "Just by getting involved in something..."
良かれ is the classical 命令形 of よし (modern いい), so it could mean "do it well" or "I hope it goes well" depending on the context.  Without the context it's hard to make a translation because I don't know who is thinking 良かれ or who is getting involved, or who is going to be the enemy.

(Side note, please don't italicize Japanese, it makes it annoying to read)

Thanks yudantaiteki and nest0r :)

Though I think I figured it out, it means something like "Anything I did, even when I was trying to make things better, only made things worse." Though in the end, it's still kind of a shot in the dark.

Also, sorry about the italics. It is pretty annoying. Won't do it again. And the lack of context, haha.

Reply #3071 - 2011 June 17, 11:44 am
Nagareboshi Member
From: Austria Registered: 2010-10-11 Posts: 569 Website

Can someone tell me if my translation of the following sentences are correct?

Context: "The dialogue is about Jason who is talking to his former host mother about his family."

へえ。アメリカには女性の弁護士が多いの?
ええ。別に珍しくありません。

Really? Are there a lot of female lawyers in America?
Yes | Yeah. They are not particularly rare.

別に~ない means "not particularly," according to my textbook. So i guess my above translation should be correct?

Reply #3072 - 2011 June 17, 12:15 pm
nest0r Member
Registered: 2007-10-19 Posts: 5236 Website

I think a better translation might be ‘It's not particularly unusual’, but I could be wrong.

Reply #3073 - 2011 June 17, 11:44 pm
Achromatize Member
From: California Registered: 2011-03-20 Posts: 17

kitakitsune wrote:

Tzadeck wrote:

Achromatize wrote:

あなたの、御返事を、待っています。

What an, obnoxious way, to use commas.

Not that Japanese really has rules about it or anything.

Haha it's the exact same way that Japanese people who don't know I speak Japanese well talk to me.

That's from a letter from a potential homestay host that I inquired about from Tokyo. The comma usage was like that throughout her letter; I just assumed it was either part of the language, or that she assumed that I wouldn't be able to understand Japanese without providing enough spaces between words.

Reply #3074 - 2011 June 18, 3:31 am
Nagareboshi Member
From: Austria Registered: 2010-10-11 Posts: 569 Website

nest0r wrote:

I think a better translation might be ‘It's not particularly unusual’, but I could be wrong.

Thank you! Actually your translation sounds better, and it seems to be correct, so i will go with that.

Reply #3075 - 2011 June 21, 7:15 am
apirx Member
Registered: 2011-02-06 Posts: 179

Hey!

I've recently started using facebook in Japanese and I stumbled across 他を見る.

I know that its a link to display the rest of a list of options and that it translates to something like "see the rest" or "see the others", but how is 他 read?

rikaichan offers either ほか (other (esp. places and things); the rest;) or た (other (esp. people and abstract matters)).

Thanks alot.