Most failed Kanji

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Reply #1 - 2009 May 18, 6:56 pm
lagwagon555 Member
Registered: 2009-04-17 Posts: 164

Post your top five most failed kanji! This isn't just for curiosity, maybe by discussing some of the most failed, who finds what easy/hard etc, then it will help the kanji stick?

Anyway, assuming you use RevTK, go to 'review', 'view detailed list' and organise your kanji by fail, and list your top five, the final number being the times failed.

Up to frame number: 720

339      訂      revise              5     
449     皆     all                 4    
463     乾     drought          4    
87     昭     shining          3    
156     封     seal                 3    

Revise, I can't believe it won't stick. I've got the perfect story, for some reason I keep putting a schoolhouse primitive over it!

All I've only just worked a story down for, and I think it's in the second box now.

Drought, I keep thinking 'oh I know this one!' and write 減. I'm sure it's just a matter of time now.

Shining... I don't even want to talk about.

And I've got seal down now. I think.

Reply #2 - 2009 May 18, 7:10 pm
crayonmaster Member
From: USA Registered: 2009-01-19 Posts: 99 Website

I'm just over frame 1600.

451      渇      thirst      6     
297     処     dispose     5    
1040     幣     cash      5    
1067     遅     slow         5    
110     汐     eventide     4

Thirst, I never really had a good story for, but I've failed it so many times that I just remember it now.

Dispose I had down perfect until I started confusing it with discard...

Cash, I confused with other money keywords... to remember it, I use alliteration - when I see the keyword, I think Counterfeit Cash, and that reminds me of my specific story for cash.

Slow, I never had a good story for... something about going slow to avoid hitting sheep. I had to make it extremely visual for it to stick... those poor sheep...

Eventide. My story was good, but I kept confusing the moon and evening primitives.

I remember these all pretty well now, except dispose. I need a way to differentiate it from discard...

Reply #3 - 2009 May 18, 7:16 pm
Wally Member
Registered: 2009-02-04 Posts: 276

crayonmaster wrote:

I'm just over frame 1600.

451      渇      thirst      6     
297     処     dispose     5    
1040     幣     cash      5    
1067     遅     slow         5    
110     汐     eventide     4

Thirst, I never really had a good story for, but I've failed it so many times that I just remember it now.

Dispose I had down perfect until I started confusing it with discard...

Cash, I confused with other money keywords... to remember it, I use alliteration - when I see the keyword, I think Counterfeit Cash, and that reminds me of my specific story for cash.

Slow, I never had a good story for... something about going slow to avoid hitting sheep. I had to make it extremely visual for it to stick... those poor sheep...

Eventide. My story was good, but I kept confusing the moon and evening primitives.

I remember these all pretty well now, except dispose. I need a way to differentiate it from discard...

You can't DISPOSE from a position of REPOSE:  You need to use your walking legs.

DISCARD is something you do in a card game, too, with your fingers.

The two require a focus, for sure.

HTH

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Reply #4 - 2009 May 18, 7:23 pm
crayonmaster Member
From: USA Registered: 2009-01-19 Posts: 99 Website

Wally wrote:

crayonmaster wrote:

I'm just over frame 1600.

451      渇      thirst      6     
297     処     dispose     5    
1040     幣     cash      5    
1067     遅     slow         5    
110     汐     eventide     4

Thirst, I never really had a good story for, but I've failed it so many times that I just remember it now.

Dispose I had down perfect until I started confusing it with discard...

Cash, I confused with other money keywords... to remember it, I use alliteration - when I see the keyword, I think Counterfeit Cash, and that reminds me of my specific story for cash.

Slow, I never had a good story for... something about going slow to avoid hitting sheep. I had to make it extremely visual for it to stick... those poor sheep...

Eventide. My story was good, but I kept confusing the moon and evening primitives.

I remember these all pretty well now, except dispose. I need a way to differentiate it from discard...

You can't DISPOSE from a position of REPOSE:  You need to use your walking legs.

DISCARD is something you do in a card game, too, with your fingers.

The two require a focus, for sure.

HTH

Hey, not to bad, thanks for that!

Reply #5 - 2009 May 18, 7:23 pm
harhol Member
From: United Kingdom Registered: 2009-04-03 Posts: 496

Current top five most difficult in Anki (from ~1200):

carry: 9/18
aggression: 9/17
angry: 6/14
suitable: 7/13
extent: 5/12

All ones where I facepalm upon revealing the answer of course. I can repeat the stories easily (e.g. ROADs carry ARMIES, the ANTIQUES ROADshow is suitable for all ages) but the connection between kanji & keyword isn't quite there yet. Having said that, angry is the only one that I've been failing recently.

@crayonmaster: for cash I picture Johnny Cash trashing a hotel room in a drunken rage, feeding all his TOWELS into a SHREDDER.... big_smile

For all the dis- ones I imagine someone talking in slang, e.g. discard is David Blaine saying, "Check dis card!" as he used his quick FINGERS to trick you... in a COTTAGE.

Reply #6 - 2009 May 19, 12:16 am
mafried Member
Registered: 2006-06-24 Posts: 766

harhol, how did you extract that list out of Anki?

Reply #7 - 2009 May 19, 2:39 am
TaylorSan Member
From: Colorado Registered: 2009-01-03 Posts: 393

Top 5 Pain in the Ass Kanji
Currently at 2042 as of 3 weeks ago, with 16,259 total reviews

徳      benevolence      -5/16
穂      ear (of a plant)      -6/13
導      guidance          -6/12   
錠     lock                     -8-12
個     individual             -7-12

I just hate benevolence and ear of a plant.....but I think I'm finally getting them
same with guidance
Lock I'll confuse clams with gold/and or my burglar story....sigh
And for some reason there's a nasty blank spot with individual, but I think at this point I pretty much got it.

One more that still drives me crazy......spit!  For some damn reason I keep switching the positions.....same problem with polish.....

But maybe posting here will help me get it right too, LOL!

For me, I find most of my fails happen due to one piece out of place, or missing.  I'm also now seeing super old kanji that I used to have solid, but time has eroded a bit....but not too worried....the SRS will freshen them up and carve them in.

Last edited by TaylorSan (2009 May 19, 2:41 am)

Reply #8 - 2009 May 19, 2:45 am
blackmacros Member
From: Australia Registered: 2009-04-14 Posts: 763

For me, give (呉) just refuses to sink in. No idea why. I must have failed it at least 5 or 6 times within the past few days alone.

I didn't really have trouble with the same ones as you TaylorSan so I can't really help you out too much :-(

For lock, though, I think of:

a lump of *metal* being so *determined* (imagine it concentrating so hard it looks like its constipated) not to open up that it can only be a LOCK.

Reply #9 - 2009 May 19, 3:13 am
Wally Member
Registered: 2009-02-04 Posts: 276

TaylorSan wrote:

Top 5 Pain in the Ass Kanji
Currently at 2042 as of 3 weeks ago, with 16,259 total reviews

徳      benevolence      -5/16
穂      ear (of a plant)      -6/13
導      guidance          -6/12   
錠     lock                     -8-12
個     individual             -7-12

For guidance, make sure you understand than in the bizarre world that is kanji, the guidance signs are attached underneath the roadway, rather than above it.  It's one weird kanji, so it needs a weird story.  (How about, "In kanji-land, you have to drive upside down to see the roadway guidance."?)  Or something like that.

Reply #10 - 2009 May 19, 9:09 am
harhol Member
From: United Kingdom Registered: 2009-04-03 Posts: 496

mafried wrote:

harhol, how did you extract that list out of Anki?

No extracting, I just went Edit >> Browse Items and sorted them by Ease using the drop down menu at the top right.

For guidance, I just think of a Sat Nav keeping you GLUED to the ROADWAY. Someone else's story I think, but it works for me.

Last edited by harhol (2009 May 19, 9:29 am)

Reply #11 - 2009 May 19, 10:09 am
RobotsAnger Member
From: canada Registered: 2008-11-24 Posts: 44

Up to 2042:
343      詰      packed           4 
330     攻     aggression        3    
390     堤     dike                 3    
435     帝     sovereign          3    
824     職     post (location)    3

I got a lot more 3's though.

Reply #12 - 2009 May 26, 3:19 am
Harrow Member
From: Eugene OR USA Registered: 2008-08-26 Posts: 122

Pass   Fail 
984      儀      ceremony      10      11     
1398     御     honorable     7     11    
450     混     mix             18      9    

Mix I finally got to stick (in box 6 now), still working on the others!

Reply #13 - 2009 June 12, 12:12 am
akahige Member
From: tokyo Registered: 2008-12-17 Posts: 11

Ha! Interesting question.  Here's my five:

403  猿      monkey              17     
402     遠     distant             15    
690     扱     handle             13    
946     算     calculate             13    
866     励     encourage    12    

I've finally got monkey and calculate down, I think.  I've got some kind of mental block with the others, but I've learned that with repetition even the most stubborn kanji can be learned.

Reply #14 - 2009 June 12, 12:54 am
isharabash Member
From: United States Registered: 2009-03-23 Posts: 36

160      均      level      6 
117     砂     sand             5
135     願     petition     5
154     垣     hedge       5
175     墨     black ink     5

Since whend did we get an onyomi column? Awesome!

Level is... odd.

I keep on switching the primitives in sand to few boulders, not boulders few

Petition I would also switch, and then I came up with "metal head" to remember "meadow head"

Hedge is always a bit weird

I forget that dirt comes under for black ink, and hopefully my lastest revision will correct that

Reply #15 - 2009 June 12, 3:06 pm
klaoth Member
From: Alabama Registered: 2009-04-16 Posts: 14

discipline   修    5/14
diligence   勤    6/18
genuine    純    6/19
rejoice      喜    5/16
distribute  配    6/19

*sorted by ease*

They don't like mee. ;;  Not sure why I miss these, I can think of all the sentences fine whenever I'm not being tested on them.

Last edited by klaoth (2009 June 12, 3:08 pm)

Reply #16 - 2009 June 13, 3:03 pm
digicult New member
From: Vancouver Registered: 2009-04-10 Posts: 6

916      誘      entice      5 
799     常     usual     4    
278     導     guidance     3
304     冠     crown     3
606     恩     grace     3

Nearly all of these I seem to know the story well as soon as I give up and flip the card over. Especially entice, great story but I seem to get it mixed up with beckon and seduce. Usual also gave me a lot of trouble, despite the obvious story: 'as usual, there's no TP in the outhouse, so I have to use a towel'.
Guidance I keep screwing up by putting the glue ON the road instead of under it. Grace, I just don't seem to be able to grasp at all. I have trouble making a good story from cause and heart.

It's interesting when I look at others' failed kanji: there seems to be little consistency.  Most of those I find quite easy.  Another thing I've noticed is that the singularly unusual kanji, like flower pot, tile, doubt, and dissolve, seem to be much easier than many of the 2-primitive kanji where one of the primitives is used very frequently (e.g. the multitude of person and thread kanji).

Last edited by digicult (2009 June 13, 3:07 pm)

Reply #17 - 2009 June 13, 4:35 pm
squeaky_lill_mk Member
From: Germany Registered: 2009-03-23 Posts: 18

392   延      prolong       4
866   励      encourage  4
1226 柔      tender         4
1232 引      pull              4

Funny, it seems that the set of most failed kanji is pretty individual for all who have posted here.  I actually expected to see some significant overlaps...

Reply #18 - 2009 June 13, 5:42 pm
Wally Member
Registered: 2009-02-04 Posts: 276

digicult wrote:

916      誘      entice      5 
799     常     usual     4    
278     導     guidance     3
304     冠     crown     3
606     恩     grace     3

Nearly all of these I seem to know the story well as soon as I give up and flip the card over. Especially entice, great story but I seem to get it mixed up with beckon and seduce. Usual also gave me a lot of trouble, despite the obvious story: 'as usual, there's no TP in the outhouse, so I have to use a towel'.
Guidance I keep screwing up by putting the glue ON the road instead of under it. Grace, I just don't seem to be able to grasp at all. I have trouble making a good story from cause and heart.

Mark GRACE used to play for the Chicago Cubs.  If ever there was a lost CAUSE, it would be the Cubs.  And GRACE is what you need if your HEART constantly "supports" a lost CAUSE.

There.  No more problem.  smile

Last edited by Wally (2009 June 13, 5:46 pm)

Reply #19 - 2009 June 13, 5:45 pm
Wally Member
Registered: 2009-02-04 Posts: 276

squeaky_lill_mk wrote:

392   延      prolong       4
866   励      encourage  4
1226 柔      tender         4
1232 引      pull              4

Funny, it seems that the set of most failed kanji is pretty individual for all who have posted here.  I actually expected to see some significant overlaps...

I expected more as well.  But clearly there isn't much of a pattern.  Surprised you have trouble with PULL, though.  To me, it's nearly a pictogram.  But everyone visualizes differently.

Reply #20 - 2009 June 13, 6:18 pm
Asakk Member
From: Brazil Registered: 2009-04-18 Posts: 31

now that I saw about that on anki, most of my top 5 failed kanji are from the beginning of the book...hm...
晶 - at the beginning I used to put 2 suns above and one down, nowadays I put the sun avove to small, so I prefer to mark 'fail'
賄 - hm...it was a surprise actually...
韻 - I always miss this one because of the order...
栓 - for some reason I always think of the whirlwind primitive here
唱 - same with 'sparkle', sometimes I put the mouth too big, or the sun above bigger than the sun below...

Reply #21 - 2009 June 13, 6:20 pm
Aijin Member
From: California Registered: 2009-05-29 Posts: 648

I forgot the bottom of 躑 yesterday.

I am a failure sad

Last edited by Aijin (2009 June 13, 6:27 pm)

Reply #22 - 2009 June 13, 7:08 pm
dbh2ppa Member
From: Costa Rica Registered: 2009-05-05 Posts: 120

i've a 10-way tie for first place :S
了 complete (confuse with 全)
泉 spring (I always put the "simple" version of the water primitive under, like the one used on 原)
黙 silence
柱 pillar
舎 cottage
越 surpass (i tend to use float instead of parade)
帝 sovereign
乾 drought
達 accomplished (funny how i can always remember how to write たち (as in 僕達 or 友達), but fail this one all the time, the keyword just won't stick.)
還 send back

all of those have just 2 fails, which is way less than i expected.

Reply #23 - 2011 April 14, 11:40 pm
LunaSlave Member
From: Ontario Canada Registered: 2010-01-19 Posts: 12

my most failed? I seem to have a lot of trouble with 稲 (rice plant) - probably because I keep expecting it to have the primitive for rice in it, but it doesn't - it has the primitive for wheat in it. Now that I've written this post, I'm hoping I remember writing it, and that it will help me to remember what my problem with it was. smile

Reply #24 - 2011 April 14, 11:54 pm
Fishface Member
From: London Registered: 2009-06-10 Posts: 32

1954    嘱    entrust
1980    験    verification
1813    触    contact
1575    棒    rod
1864    伺    pay respects

Reply #25 - 2011 April 15, 12:05 am
thecite Member
From: Adelaide Registered: 2009-02-05 Posts: 781

Aijin wrote:

I forgot the bottom of 躑 yesterday.

I am a failure sad

I can say that 躑躅 are probably among my most failed kanji as well, frankly because I've never bothered trying to remember the stories I created for them, how often do you need to write 'azalea' anyway?