jorgebucaran wrote:

harhol wrote:

lol, I'm still on 512kbps...

Are you sure? Maybe what you have is 512 KB/s. There is no way I win this one, Internet in Venezuela is the slowest.

I live in a rural area which is a long way from the telephone exchange. The fastest I've ever had was 4mbps and that was in the middle of a city.


Re: the two posters above, it's difficult for me (I can't speak for Jorge or Taylor) to understand where you're coming from. You both give mixed messages, especially FutureBlues, who is a teacher who doesn't enjoy teaching and someone who has lived in Japan for three years despite apparently hating every minute of it (gross exaggeration, obviously, but the impression I get is still overwhelmingly negative). To be honest I don't understand why you're still there or why you even went there in the first place. You criticise us for having strange motivations but don't appear to have (or have ever had) any yourself. But this is just how I've interpeted what you've written.

I'm not obsessed with J-pop, animé, manga, ninjas etc, I just want to try living somewhere else because I don't enjoy living where I am now. That's my motivation. Japan seems like a cool place to live and a country where I'd have several different ways to go about making a living. However, I'm not in a financial position to be able to try out Japan and go live there for a couple weeks/months, or go to university there. If I move there, it would have to be for a job and it would have to be relatively permanent. This makes it more of a gamble because I don't know if I'll actually like it there, but unfortunately I have no choice. I'm not in a position to fly back and forth depending on my whims.

I want to live somewhere that isn't the UK, the USA or Australia. Other than Canada I don't have any option other than to learn another language. Of the available languages, Japanese was the most appealing to me. It's as simple as that. Looking into it further, I discovered the high demand for native English speakers, and it seemed like the most logical choice. I don't see what's so controversial or naive about wanting to emigrate... hundreds of thousands do it every year.

Tobberoth wrote:

...there's tons of annoying things as well, which is easy for someone who has never been to Japan to ignore until they actually live there.

...clearly. No one is saying that nothing bad ever happens in Japan. I take it as a given that there will be tons of annoying people, stupid people and racists, just like there are here, so that's why I don't see any reason to dwell upon it (I've had enough problems opening bank accounts here to last a lifetime). Life as an immigrant will be tough wherever you go, especially if you stand out. But I would rather face a tough & challenging life as an immigrant than a boring & unhappy life in my native country.

Last edited by harhol (2009 May 23, 1:07 pm)

@ harhol..  dude i wish my internet was that fast atm.. currently im rocking a 0.12mbs as opposed to 1.5mbs   (line broken )  if i want to use iknow, i have to wait 15 minutes for it to load.

most people in this thread who live in japan / went to japan and came back.  went straight from college / University.  They didn't lead a live of shit jobs, piss poor pay and hatred by there superiors beforehand to have any kind of comparison. 

you may hate teaching english in japan.. but did any of you pull an 11 hour shift in a burger king with one 15 min break, 6 days a week ?  i did for the 6 months after i finished college.  you think helping someone learn a valuable skill isn't fulfilling?  you have no idea.
the job im in now (for the last 3 and a half years.. leaving in summer  going to university) is so bottom rung, there is no potential for ever getting myself off it.  I have to make this bold jump or risk waking up, being 40 and wondering why i bothered in the first place.

I have seen the bottom, unemployment or a shit job with no prospects, still living with parents, having money issues.   and don't get me wrong , im not stupid.  im fairly highly qualified  (just missing the degree, have a diploma and loads of other pointless crap to match) but this is the trap you fall into if you take the wrong step outta college/ high school  like i did.  Not deciding quick enough what i wanted to do and this happened.

I personally would like to try teaching in Japan, ive always found working with kids to be a blast (my mum is a pre school teacher, so i occasionaly lended a hand.. nothing quite completes your day  like 15  3yr old "pile on" with you stuck at the bottom)  its not exactly a step down for me, and im at the point in my life where big change is needed or i may aswell give up.
once i have my degree, thats the plan atm. obviously subject to change.  If i don't like it, ill come home, but i will have at least given it a shot.  Which i feel i owe myself at least.  Ofc after spending a year in Osaka in a 2 years time.. my tune may be completely differant.  but its something il have to find out for myself rather than read on a forum. 

everywhere is good, everywhere sucks.  Find out what works for yourself.  If you don't like it,  suck it up and change it.

harhol wrote:

Jarvik, why did you return to Canada? Were you only a student in Japan?

I originally went over on a 1yr student visa, but have gone back several times since during time off from school, for a total of about two years in-country. I also worked for a bit as an English teacher while I was there at both 英会話 and 塾. I came back to Canada to finish my degree (just finished). Now I'm a freelance 和英 translator, but about to start looking for a position in a company in Japan (probably back in Osaka, but considering Tokyo and Nagoya too).

The only real negative experiences I've had were not being able to get a cellphone the last time I went for 5 months due to new anti-terrorism rules requiring you to have a non-short-term visa, and living with my (now) ex-girlfriend

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2009 May 23, 2:49 pm)

I've both taught in Japan, lived in Japan in high school for a year, am going back to Japan for two years later on for university, live with a japanese roomate now, intern full-time in Japanese for a Japanese company in the US here,  and I gotta tell- there's good and bad things about the place. I second the above comment and can say Japan's had loads of s*** people and good people. Before I first went, I thought Japan was the best, things were amazing there, and people were so great. Wow- I was in for a wake-up call. But, the good news is I got it fairly early on (before I turned 20) and realize this. Now, I'm pretty sure Japan will always be a fairly large part of my life, but I've gone from "wishing I lived in Japan 24/7, things are so cool" to being able to appreciate both sides of the spectrum.

Btw, Future Blues, I'm in DC too, at AU? How about you?

Last edited by Diana (2009 May 23, 6:38 pm)

Diana wrote:

I thought Japan was the best, things were amazing there, and people were so great. Wow- I was in for a wake-up call.

This is exactly the information, we, the ones that have never been and experienced Japan want to know. Would you elaborate on all of that bad stuff? Enlighten us.

Allright, no problem with that, but specifically, is there anything you would like to know?
It's really hard to pull out everything in my "big umbrella of topics" you know, so if you could specify, that would be ok. But, to throw in my two cents.... (highly colored by all MY personal experiences as a 20 year old young female)

Perusing the forums, one of the things I found really hard was the ability to form close friendships or just how strong tatemae/honmei really is! Though one of the posters said it's not so present amongst younger people, from my experience, I can say that it really is present and not just a "generational thing". I've experienced it in a variety of situations with young people- in high school, at university, even amongst the exchange students here at my university who really are here to obviously try to embrace the "American way of life" much like I believe exchange students anywhere should embrace X country way of life (and like I embraced Japan's way of life too when I was an exchange student)

Honmei and Tatemae and stuff is present and because of that, Japanese people can be really nice to others and then nasty behind their back! They did it in my high school, circle of japanese, friends, etc. I was often surprised by some of the cruelty, or just casual ignorance I witnessed. Sometimes, when a person was in trouble too, others would just ignore that and shrug it off as "Xsans" problem. That really bothered me, and I'm not sure it's a Japanese thing or a worldwide humanity problem, but not that many countries have as high a suicide rate as Japan (more on that later)

Getting Japanese people to open up to you was also something I found very hard. And I speak the language! It can get frustrating (maybe I'm a female that is why) but living in a foreign country without close girlfriends is kinda tough I think. No matter how hard I try and still do continuously try, out of all of the Japanese people I meet, I don't think I will ever find a close relationship with a Japanese person parallel to what I have with my Western friends, it's just really difficult on their end. It was the same with my boyfriend, too, who was also Japanese. Not willing to admit their feelings, very private person, etc.  I know that there are plenty of people who in Western relationships and friendships get the " I'm not a mindreader, how am I supposed to know what Xsan is thinking" frustrations as well, but it just seems like in Japan, that is compounded more often and I experience that more often as well. I don't know if it is a good thing for Japan or not. Personally, I think it is what is responsible for the country's high suicide rate because it seems like people feel more and more that they have nobody to turn to. (There's another rosy reason to like Japan: the high suicide rate)

Another thing I found frustrating was the relative insularity of the culture, and the refusal to accept anything foreign. It was personally frustrating to me because I was in Japan on scholarship and one of the things I was expected to do (and write reports on!) was about how I was being a "cultural ambassador"

Load of crock, I know, but I got to Japan and lived with  host family for free like that. I tried my darndest to do so, and eagerly embraced my role as doing this. Volunteered in the community, was only white person in Japanese high school, had only Japanese friends ( I wasn't allowed to hang out with foreigners, it was against my scholarship rules. Never mind that I was in Saga prefecture, and there WERE no other foreigners to hang out with neways, lol)

Anyway, at first I didn't mind the inane mcdonalds/america questions, but even after answering xsan's question, " No, I don't eat McDonalds everyday" back when I first came, answering in the middle of the year, and then at the end, it got a little frustrating that random people wouldn't accept me for who I am or try to learn anything about me. And I suppose that is what is difficult to deal with because for many Japanese, it seemed like I was who I was (gaijin) and they were who they were (japanese) and that is how it was going to be, forever and forever. No matter how hard I tried. I was just a gaijin American who eat choco cake and McD every day and OBVIOUSLY never ate fish or natto ( which I do and love!) But, the inabiity of the japanese to accept me was difficult. Some of the previous posters have obviously highlighted this and I think they did a good job. You are always going to be foreign in Japan, no matter how hard you try.


Another thing that got relatively annoying was the insecurity I found amongst Japanese girls, both in high school and uni. To my Japanese friends, I am an "aggressive onna" simply because I am the type of person who doesn't take BS from anybody.

Case in point: some people were being loud outside our dorm windows the other night, and all the Japanese people were shivering in fear, because they found it annoying but didn't want to do anything about it. I sighed, got up, told the people to shut it (they did) and the Japanese girls all looked to me like I was a savior or something. Now, some Americans might also be non-confrontational, but it seemed to me like being that type of person in Japan is bad because they have to preserve the "wa" or whatever. In fact, when I asked said Japanese girls why they didn't, they replied they wanted everyone to get along well together, yada yada. Or another time when a Japanese girl and I were lost and wandering around trying to find an onsen. She was "too shy" to ask for directions.
Again, I being the "aggressive" type went up and asked in Japanese for directions.
Times like these make me wanna go *sigh* you know? It's just directions, for crying out loud!!


My jp. ex-bf also gave me flack about this ( Women should be quiet! Gaijin girls are so aggressive! Be respectful! nonsense). That bothered me a lot too, and I suppose these feelings were compounded by the fact that Japan is a place where women feel they have to be married before 25 or they are a "Christmas cake". (And no, that isn't old-fashioned thinking, that is straight out of the mouth of my 23 yr. old host sister!)

That really grates me, and I'm not some crazy feminist who burns her bra or anything. In fact, my American friends all call me feminine because I LOVE pink and LOVE hello kitty, and am outgoing in America, but never "aggressive." But, it's that aspect or something that bothers me, because Japan isn't the place where you can be a strong independent female. I suppose that's why so many Japanese women love SATC, but the idea of a Japanese Samantha existing...I just can't seem to picture it.

I know a lot of bright, beautiful Japanese girls too, but they have some of the craziest insecurities, probably compounded by their culture. Did you know anorexia rates are the highest in the world in Japan? It bothers me that these girls never seem to think they are worthy enough or good enough, when in reality, many of them are. And for the Japanese girls who do end up being "Samantha's", they don't do it in Japan. They go to LA or NY to do so. I find it sad that their own country doesn't support these girl's ambitions, particularly when Japan is facing such a HUGE birth rate/population problem.

Wonder why...hmmm....

I'll admit some of things I experienced might be a "city versus country" phenemenon, I dunno. I've only ever lived a month in Tokyo while I was teaching, and the rest of my time in Japan, I have spent in the countryside. But, I've read a lot of blogs and have lots of friends who are Japnese, associated with Japan, been all over in Japn, and their views are similar to mine. I've even had Japanese girls agree with me on all of this, which is why I have a few gf's right now who are eagerly wanting to go live in LA or NY, and are trying to do so.

To be fair and to balance things out on the male side, I think Japan seems a tough place for guys sometimes too. Having to hand over your money and getting an "allowance" from your wife seems stupid to me. I'd rather have an open and honest marriage with my future guy where we can both make responsible financial decisions together, not me having to treat him like a child, you know? And Japanese dads are never present in their kid's lives, which I think is also pretty bad. Makes me wonder why so many j-girls grow up insecure, not having a positive male influence maybe?

Having to work day in and day out out of loyalty for your company also seems stupid to me, and to get so stressed that you can't do anything but just get sloshed and forget about it the next day also bothers me. Why aren't all the salaryman fathers out on the train home with their kids? Instead they wile away their time drinking and pachinko'ing and generally being inefficient at work, which is why they come home at midnight. And their high suicide rate and heart disease present in their country prove it. I know because my mother was an accountant for Guidant Corporation, which makes pacemakers, heart stents, and other things of that nature. It used to be a large company (it's sold now, I digress) but guess who their BEST customers were? Out of all the countries in the world, Japanese people had the highest demand for such things. I mean, you can only keep up a drinking, smoking, salaryman life up for so long before your heart goes kaput...

Doesn't really seem like the best place now, right?

So, to sum up, this are some of the things I think are really difficult about Japan and things that I think are messed up. Hopefully, in the future, these things will change, but as a representative of the young generation here, I can assure you, things are going to be status quo in Japan for what looks like a LONG time.
Japan does have lots of good things about it! ( I'm hopefully going to be going to Kyoto for two years for my undergraduate this year and can't wait!) but I tried to faithfully present my opinions and observations and try to give "both sides of the coin" like I said I would.

Last edited by Diana (2009 May 23, 8:31 pm)

FutureBlues wrote:

I think that its great you want to do something with your life, but I'm just here saying, "Look... Why Japan? Why not Spain, Switzerland, Taiwan? Why must it specifically be Japan?" If you can't answer that question, or the answer is: "Well, because I feel in my heart that Japan is the right place for me," then you may want to just come here, spend 30 days on a tourist visa and stay with somebody-- see if its all that and a bag of chips like you think it is before you start taking steps to completely abandon everything and start living and breathing Japanese.

As I stated above my motivation is that I want to live & work in a First World country which isn't the UK, the USA or Australia/NZ, and aside from Canada that means learning another language. Of all the available languages, Japanese & Chinese were the most appealing, with the former offering better career prospects. It might seem like I'm putting all my eggs in one random basket but there's no escaping the fact that learning a language is a huge commitment. I've decided to go with Japan so I must dedicate myself to achieving that goal, otherwise I risk half-assing everything (i.e. story of my life) and remaining stuck here forever.

May I ask you the same question: why Japan? Why not Spain, Switzerland, Taiwan? I'm curious.

Last edited by harhol (2009 May 23, 9:08 pm)

No, I can't point any of the bad stuff about Japan that would affect you or Harhol because I am obviously not you or Harhol, so I can't say. I can only say what I HAVE experienced and because I'm not you or you aren't me, everybody's experience is always going to be different. And it is true that people suicide everywhere, but the fact that Japan has one of the world's highest doesn't raise red flags to you? That alone would make me wary, right? I mean, since it's obviously such a great place, how come people are killing themselves there left and right? I'm not trying to come across as being brusque or mean, but I guess what you requested seems a bit difficult since like I said, everybody is going to have a different time there. All of the things that I experienced there did affect me, as a young female looking to work and possibly live in Japan in the future. Even as a male, your experience there will be different, and if you want submissive girls, you've got the place
*rolls eyes, slightly vomits, coughcoughyellowfevercough*

Last edited by Diana (2009 May 23, 9:45 pm)

Diana wrote:

No, I can't point any of the bad stuff about Japan that would affect you or Harhol because I am obviously not you or Harhol, so I can't say. I can only say what I HAVE experienced and because I'm not you or you aren't me, everybody's experience is always going to be different.

Evidently. And it should be obvious, seems you are so smart, that I didn't ask you to read my future. I am asking you to point out bad stuff about Japan that would affect foreigners in general, people that want to emigrate and live there. Is like if you ask me to point out bad stuff about Venezuela, I would probably tell you about the high crime rate and corruption (just to name two things) which is the stuff that are most likely to affect you if you came here.

Last edited by jorgebucaran (2009 May 23, 9:48 pm)

Perhaps, and again, I prefaced my message saying that these were all MY personal views, so perhaps they wouldn't necessarily apply to everyone else. But, I can say that my day-to-day existence in the US wasn't colored by tatamae/honmei and that I really think it's something you can only experience when you get there. Perhaps it was something that was part of your teenage existence, now imagine it in a country where nobody ever grows out of it. I also want to add that I have found it easier for people to open up from other cultures and being an IR major in a INTERNATIONAL city and being well acqauinted with 3 cultures, Japan is a particularly tough nut to crack. I think what I'm saying has some worth, but hey, the best thing to do is just experience it, right?
You seem to have already made up your mind about this, so why don't you just go there and see for yourself?

And as for foreigness, I can say as an immigrant to the US that you are not always going to be foreign here, or at least, always feel it. So, no, I don't think it's true of anywhere. And even legally and on the domestic front, Japan has the strictest laws in the world regarding citizenhip and even officially not being foreign. Sorry, but America isn't that strict and several other countries aren't as well. So, even on a legal level, you can't say that is true of anywhere. I mean, what other country is paying its immigrants to leave instead of integrating them into society? Its because Japanese people are so insular that they can't accept the country is a sinking ship and accept the future. I've spoken with Japanese diplomats who echo my view and feel this too, but when I've asked about solution and just suck in their breath, " It will happen, but Japan will have to crash first, then realize it." Even the govt. realizes it is powerless to really do something, until something really bad happens.

And last, as for the aggressive thing, I dunno, but I've spoken to AU, NZ, Brit girls who all agree with me on this, all living in Japan and all echo my sentiments. Not to be condencending, but I guess it seems we all have unusual upbringings and unique personalities according to your worldview, with 'atypical' behavior. It also may seem like a question of personal character or personality, but I think it is a bad thing when somebody or something is personally bothering you and you don't do anything about it. There is a difference between being mean, and also being a doormat. I think it is a bad thing to be a doormat, and to allow other people's decisions to influence your actions. So, I ask, how is that NOT a bad thing? lol I'm sorry, but having to go through life gaman-ing it up isn't my cup of tea.

  But, like I said, instead of my dissecting my posts, since you made up your mind, why don't you just go there? I get the distinct impression you guys have really made a decision and are just looking for yes-men to support you. Experience is the best teacher, right? I mean, what do I KNOW obviously?

You nailed it! I want yes-men. lol

Seriously, I think you are right, we are just looking for re-affirmation, we have made our minds.

I'm not sure when I will come, someday though. I've decided after Japan, it should be Korea, Germany, and Argentina, and the rest I'm not so sure about Sounds great, and since I'm so aggresive and would do great there, maybe I can pick myself up a hot guy.
Except now I'm totally advocating latinofever, which isn't good either, lol. People should love each other for who they are, not where they are from!

Diana wrote:

I'm not sure when I will come, someday though. I've decided after Japan, it should be Korea, Germany, and Argentina, and the rest I'm not so sure about Sounds great, and since I'm so aggressive and would do great there, maybe I can pick myself up a hot guy.

Oh well from experience you will be getting down the plane yourself and getting in the Taxi with your latino hot guy already.

OK we are moving away from the discussion. I encourage everyone to get back on the tracks. I will post the following questions considering my intention, as well as many others to move to Japan, it appears that obtaining a work Visa is the most (only) logical way to live in there indefinitely.

1) What about: going to Japan as a tourist, apply for a Job and find help to get a Work Visa. Is that possible?
2) How does it work getting a work Visa in Japan? Do you need to be endorsed by a company?
3) If you need the endorsement, which is the most logical, how does it work getting a job at Japan? Should I just send my CV to random companies?
4) What suggestions and advice can you give?

Last edited by jorgebucaran (2009 May 23, 10:30 pm)