Wally wrote:

In Tokyo, expect to pay US$650 and up for one room, unit bath (a cramped little thing where basically one lump of plastic has been molded into your tub, wash basin and toilet).

Thanks. This doesn't seem too bad. I don't mind living in small spaces and I'd like to avoid owning a car if at all possible. I plan to be self-employed so I can't imagine spending a fortune on travel costs either. Location is way more important to me than quality & size of the accomodation.

Wally wrote:

If you want to live "Western (more like American) style", it's going to cost you.  Even a smallish (~70 square meter) 3 "bedroom" (3LDK) is going to run at *least* US$2,000 a month, probably more.  I'm assuming a reasonably nice building and neighborhood.

Thanks again. Moving to Japan to live a Western lifestyle and eat Western food has always seemed stupid to me. I guess this kind of living is for rich kids who want a nice holiday.

FutureBlues wrote:

Another nice thing is that you can get mostly everything you can get in the States here SOMEHOW, whether it be ordering from overseas and having it shipped to you, or finding the one random online shop that stocks it here in Japan.

Good to know in case of emergencies. Thanks. I plan to leave everything Western behind when I go but you never know how things will turn out.

FutureBlues wrote:

However, as an immigrant, you face a different set of challenges, I think. You won't have that ALT contract to fall back on, and you may be required to work the ridiculous hours your Japanese colleagues work, and go to all their functions, and participate in society the same way they do. You may be asked to move away from your family for months or years at a time for your job, without any recourse short of quitting.

I think this is true of any competitive high-paying job. I've seen people in my family who've spent every waking hour working and attending functions. But as I stated above, I plan to be self-employed so I can decide my own working hours & conditions. I've lived away from home for months at a time before so I'm not one to get homesick. Don't have any kids yet... I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

FutureBlues wrote:

Japanese people are fiercely dedicated to the way they've always done things, and even if there's a better way of doing it they'll likely stick to the tired and true.

Again, I think this is true of all places.

FutureBlues wrote:

Furthermore, goods are expensive here. I'm not sure about Europe, but compared to the States, most everything has a premium here.

As a European I'm already used to paying twice as much for everything as Americans do (RTK is £30.35 on amazon.co.uk and $23.84 on amazon.com). This shouldn't be a problem!

FutureBlues wrote:

One of the largest challenges of living here is just getting used to not having the same opportunities you would have in your native country. Your job is going to be determined by your ethnicity and/or level of Japanese and there's not going to be much chance to move up the corporate ladder or anything like that.

Of course I'd only ever move to Japan permanently if I was fluent to a level at which I could read novels, conduct phone calls and generally not have to worry about my language skills. What do you mean there's no chance to move up the corporate ladder? Do you have any experience of this? I assumed a Japanese company would be like any other... surely someone with the ability to speak English & Japanese fluently would be a valuable asset?

FutureBlues wrote:

If you're working as an ALT, you'll find that even if you have great kids and great schools, your job is still mindless and not at all fulfilling.

Yeah the ALT/JET thing has never really appealed to me. Ultra competitive, low pay, seemingly random placements, not to mention the reputation of ALTs as Japan-hating misanthropes that I'd have to deal with.

welldone101 wrote:

Teaching English in Japan after doing JET is like eating the curry that astronauts get in those tubes after living in India for a year.

Could you elaborate? I was always under the impression that JET & friends were the worst possible way to teach English in Japan but they were popular because they gave you cheap housing and did all the paperwork for you. Teaching privately is said to be extremely lucrative (and I mean actual teaching... as in private tutoring with lessons conducted in Japanese, not ALT "teaching").

welldone101 wrote:

There is racism here, and as small and insidious as it is, it's something that edges on your mind in the long term.

This may sound like a silly question but is there the possibility that certain people are just being goblins rather than being racist? Do you put every inconvenience and setback down to racism?

FutureBlues wrote:

If you want to really enjoy your time here, don't come over as an English teacher.

I take it you mean "don't come over as an ALT" rather than "don't come over as an English teacher"? What would be so unenjoyable about being a private English teacher? It's something I've certainly considered.

jorgebucaran wrote:

I don't understand why would anyone that does not value their culture would want to live in Japan.

Heh, me neither. A lot of people who move there seem to want to live in a suburban American bubble, eating the same food and doing the same things. One of the benefits of not being an animé fan is that I can be sure I'm chiefly interested in the lifestyle rather than Haruhi & friends.

Brokenvai wrote:

Love this discussion

Yeah it's great... as you can probably tell by the absurd length of this post! Of all the discussions of Japan I've ever seen, this has been by far the most open-minded.

jorgebucaran wrote:

Well for one thing, what is ALT? And to what countries does it apply?

Another thing is, I respect adverse opinions of Japan, but I don't understand why would anyone that does not value their culture would want to live in Japan.

ALT = assistant language teacher

I think most of us pointed out things we loved about Japan earlier in the thread too.

I assume by "their" you mean "Japan's culture".  However, that doesn't mean you have to love everything.  I'm sure there's things you love about your family, and also don't so much.  There's things I love about America, there's things I hate.  There's things everybody who lives in Japan loves about Japan, but many of those things are ways of life so much than occurrences. 

I believe that for what you are defining as "Japanese culture" (and correct me if I'm wrong: sushi, manga, anime, language, kimono, yukata, festivals, sake, asian girls, crazy English, funny sense of humor, sumo, great TV programs, food food food) most or all of that you can get from the comfort of, say, another country without any of the negatives you get living in Japan.  The core of Japanese culture, the essence is not the compilation of that list I typed out above.  Those things are a result of a fundamental wiring difference that goes back thousands of years.

These are the kinds of thing that are so powerful they dig into your heart, mind, and soul the moment you start to participate and leave permanent marks on you.  We can't tell you how Japan will change your soul, because everybody's different, but chances are high it will.  Some of those changes bend me the right way and I enjoy them, some of them bend me the wrong way and I resent them.

Last edited by welldone101 (2009 May 21, 9:04 am)

harhol wrote:

Thanks again. Moving to Japan to live a Western lifestyle and eat Western food has always seemed stupid to me. I guess this kind of living is for rich kids who want a nice holiday.

It's not about that. I don't know where you're from, nor do I claim to understand what you want to do or what plans you have, but to convince yourself that you're going to be able to come over here and completely abandon the culture you grew up in is a fallacy. Curry udon is amazing, but when I find a hamburger and beer joint, I go all out. Japanese toilets aren't impossible to use, but it's nice to sit on a toilet seat sometimes instead of squat over a hole in the ground. And finally, as far as housing in concerned, if you're shorter than average, you'll fit in fine, assuming you don't want to sleep on a bed, or put a couch in your room, etc. etc. I, myself, am lucky because my apartment is large enough to accommodate a single bed. Two of the five people here in my town couldn't fit the bed in my room in their apartment at all. When people talk about eating Western food here and wishing they had a larger apartment-- well, I mean, I lived 10 minutes from the border of Mexico for 20 years, but that doesn't mean I wanted to eat Mexican food every single day.

harhol wrote:

I think this is true of any competitive high-paying job. I've seen people in my family who've spent every waking hour working and attending functions. But as I stated above, I plan to be self-employed so I can decide my own working hours & conditions. I've lived away from home for months at a time before so I'm not one to get homesick. Don't have any kids yet... I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Self-employed? You may find it difficult to get a work visa here without some sort of sponsorship. It's not impossible-- I know someone foreign who runs his own business in a bigger city up north, but he was a former 3 year JET and more before he started up his own business. In any case, I don't think anyone works as hard (in other countries, I mean and without overtime pay) as most Japanese people do. Teachers? Yeah, they stop getting paid 3-4 hours before they leave school everyday.

harhol wrote:

FutureBlues wrote:

Japanese people are fiercely dedicated to the way they've always done things, and even if there's a better way of doing it they'll likely stick to the tired and true.

Again, I think this is true of all places.

The difference here is that in Japan that what's the word... uh, steadfast desire to do things "the Japanese way" is a point of pride. I read an article comparing the iPhone to a "foreigner who speaks perfect Japanese but doesn't understand the culture at all" back when the iPhone didn't have emoji and whatnot. There are a lot of stupid, pointless things you'll see people, groups, companies, etc. doing everyday and if you do it, people will think its cute that you're trying to fit in; if you don't, they'll assume that you don't understand and never will. In actuality, its typically that you understand and choose not to participate in it. After living here in Japan for 3 years going into my 4th, I can tell you that I've decided to ignore the stupid stuff and just be myself-- and I'm able to do this because, although I am employed by the BoE like everyone else, because I'm not Japanese, I'm outside the rules, in many ways.

When I talk about this, I'm talking about daily life stuff-- like refusing to let grass grow in a soccer field because-- well, I don't know. Or sweeping the asphalt outside of a building in the middle of a dust storm, or changing your shoes so that you can step on a linoleum floor from a carpeted area, etc. etc.

harhol wrote:

Of course I'd only ever move to Japan permanently if I was fluent to a level at which I could read novels, conduct phone calls and generally not have to worry about my language skills. What do you mean there's no chance to move up the corporate ladder? Do you have any experience of this? I assumed a Japanese company would be like any other... surely someone with the ability to speak English & Japanese fluently would be a valuable asset?

I have a friend who lives in Osaka. He came over here on an un-expired student visa to look for work. He rented a house, worked some freelance, all this with JLPT1 and about 5 years of Japanese (1 at a Japanese Uni) under his belt. The one and only bit of work he's managed to procure in 5 months with his credentials paid him $1,400 for about 4 days of work. Otherwise he hasn't even gotten a request for an interview anywhere, even for the company he did the translation work for. He speaks English fluently and Japanese well enough to live here, negotiate a rental contract, do freelance translation in the IT field, read novels and the newspaper, and even give piano lessons. He's a nice guy too. Valuable asset? I don't know. He told me that if he doesn't find a job within 2 months, he's heading home and giving up.

harhol wrote:

FutureBlues wrote:

If you're working as an ALT, you'll find that even if you have great kids and great schools, your job is still mindless and not at all fulfilling.

Yeah the ALT/JET thing has never really appealed to me. Ultra competitive, low pay, seemingly random placements, not to mention the reputation of ALTs as Japan-hating misanthropes that I'd have to deal with.

I've never met one of these mythical Japan-hating ALTs, but whatever. I think a lot of people go to great lengths to convince themselves that Japan is an amazing place full of wonder and candy and bright lights and then when people come up to bat and tell them real things about the real place that Japan is they assume that he/she just hates it and dismisses their stories as the gospel of the hater. Would you rather I just tell you that Japan is everything you've ever dreamed of and let you go on believing that when I can instead tell you about my experience and let you draw your own conclusions?

harhol wrote:

welldone101 wrote:

Teaching English in Japan after doing JET is like eating the curry that astronauts get in those tubes after living in India for a year.

Could you elaborate? I was always under the impression that JET & friends were the worst possible way to teach English in Japan but they were popular because they gave you cheap housing and did all the paperwork for you. Teaching privately is said to be extremely lucrative (and I mean actual teaching... as in private tutoring with lessons conducted in Japanese, not ALT "teaching").

For me its not about the money because I don't enjoy teaching. Suffice to say, there are obstacles that exist in this country that present unique challenges to both teachers and learners of foreign languages. The sentiment about curry is probably because ALT jobs are typically pretty fantastic as far as work-to-pay ratio is concerned. You make good money, pay little in overhead, and have a lot of free time both at work and outside of work to study Japanese. Teach English privately, sure, you'll make more money, but you'll also be doing a lot more work and face much tighter scrutiny. People say teaching English privately is very lucrative and I believe it. Japanese people, parents in particular, are willing to pay a lot of money and ask very few questions-- teachers are venerable and because it's language education, there's no easy way to measure progress or teacher performance. Most people have no idea what makes a teacher or a particular school good anyway, nor do they want to put in the time or critical thinking to find out.

harhol wrote:

This may sound like a silly question but is there the possibility that certain people are just being goblins rather than being racist? Do you put every inconvenience and setback down to racism?

People are nice (I've never run into anyone who hated foreigners, personally), but its the companies and businesses you have to watch out for. There are some Japanese-only places in cities especially and foreigners signing up for cell phones, credit cards, renting hotel rooms, etc. are treated differently from Japanese people. How many times have you been asked to show and allow them to copy your passport in a European or American hotel? I'm asked to do it EVERY TIME here. (Though now I'm obstinate about it and just hand them my license, instead, which they reluctantly take without question.)

harhol wrote:

jorgebucaran wrote:

I don't understand why would anyone that does not value their culture would want to live in Japan.

Heh, me neither. A lot of people who move there seem to want to live in a suburban American bubble, eating the same food and doing the same things. One of the benefits of not being an animé fan is that I can be sure I'm chiefly interested in the lifestyle rather than Haruhi & friends.

"The lifestyle?" You may be disappointed to find this out but Japanese people in Japan live pretty much the same as people in any other first world country. I think the biggest changes you'll make are dietary, honestly. If you're self-employed you could probably live here without changing any of your old habits... except for the bank I guess. Banks close at 3 and ATMs at 8, in the countryside at least.

The point of all this is that most people are moderate and yes, pro-Japan/Japanese forums tend to have a greater share of people who have opinions closer to either end of the spectrum, but when it comes down to it, wanting a hamburger and a real Guinness once a month isn't the same as "wanting to live in a bubble." While you can take any country and come up with a list of pros and cons about living there, Japan has a lot of positives and negatives that are unique to Japan, moreso than say, positives/negatives of living in Germany being unique to Germany. The funny thing about all these is that it won't matter for most foreigners because in the current climate (especially with all the layoffs and whatnot companies have been announcing) they won't be subject to the same sort of lifestyle as a typical Japanese person would anyway, so in the end its all moot.

Personally though, I think its stupid to move here just to make some kind of lifestyle change. To move away from everything you have and dive headfirst, especially into a culture like this, you should have goals. For me, it was learning Japanese and now, as I go into my 4th year here, my goal is refining what I've learned so that at some point in the future I can pack it all up and go home and try my hand at something different.

On that note, Japan is an excellent place to both learn and study Japanese. Get your basics at a year or two at a university with a good, respected Japanese language program (a university here in Japan, I mean) and then figure out a way to study on your own here and lock-in that last 40%.

If you have a goal, and Japan is where you need to be to make it happen, go for it. If it's not and you're coming here because you believe that you need to sit on tatami to think, or that Japanese "naninani" is so amazing and you want to have that and EVERYTHING else and just drown in it... Well, I'd take a good hard look at what you want to do and make sure that moving here is as important as you think it is.

Last edited by FutureBlues (2009 May 21, 9:35 am)

harhol wrote:

What do you mean there's no chance to move up the corporate ladder? Do you have any experience of this? I assumed a Japanese company would be like any other... surely someone with the ability to speak English & Japanese fluently would be a valuable asset?

I was always under the impression that JET & friends were the worst possible way to teach English in Japan but they were popular because they gave you cheap housing and did all the paperwork for you. Teaching privately is said to be extremely lucrative (and I mean actual teaching... as in private tutoring with lessons conducted in Japanese, not ALT "teaching").

welldone101 wrote:

There is racism here, and as small and insidious as it is, it's something that edges on your mind in the long term.

This may sound like a silly question but is there the possibility that certain people are just being goblins rather than being racist? Do you put every inconvenience and setback down to racism?

First the JET thing.  I think you are confusing it with other programs.  JET pays Y300,000 a year (which works to approx. $30,000 a year), you are a public servant and thus covered under government medical insurance, further covered up to 100% by the JET medical insurance, given 20 days of paid vacation from the first year, allowed to take sick leave (unlike everybody else working in Japan, who takes vacation days for sick days), and most times have contracts worked out heavily in your favor (i.e. I work 35 hours a week) and subsidized rent.  JET is the Cadillac of ALT jobs, not in Japan, but in Asia.  Definitely look into it for a good starter to get over here.  It's up to 5 years recontacting now and some of my friends have saved over $40,000 while living the high life traveling around the continent and becoming good at Japanese to boot.

I have no experience with private tutorship or teaching.  I've heard from one person who I know does it that it's way better than her previous ALT job.  But ALT jobs suck compared to JET so I can't compare.

Next, racism.  Yeah it's pretty easy to tell what's racism and what's not.  They are very timid here and afraid of language setbacks and losing face, but that just feels different when you hit the actual racism.  It's ...different?  And if I had to choose one experience in Japan to keep if I lost them all, it might be that one.  For a white American it's absolutely something that I treasure being able to understand even a little bit more (it's only in small doses after all).

Corporate ladder.  (Disclaimer: I have no experience with corporations.  Everything I learned was from working at a school, reading several books, watching about 5 interviews on TV of foreign workers, watching some dramas of Japanese workforce, and 1 friend I have in a non-standard corporation.)  There are all sorts of different companies in Japan.  A lot of them are traditional Japanese companies.  If you want to understand them I recommend this book: The Japanese have a word for it..  It will save me a lot of typing.  But basically what you can expect from a traditional Japanese company is that they recruit right from college; keep incoming classes together and promote them together; make you put your time in all over the map; are structured age wise; then time at company wise (usually all equal to age since you all come in together); have strong distinctions between 'real' employees and 'temporary' employees; reward longevity at company, long hours, and loyalty over efficiency and value.  None of these are bad things, they make for fantastic companies.  However, they are not compatible with people who aren't in the system, such as you.

There are other companies that are more international.  I've seen some of their employees interviewed on game shows and such.  They seem to be way more open, but I still see some of the best things carried over from the standard-way-of-doing-business here.  So you won't miss out on that if you work for one of them.

"Valuable asset" is a very western idea.  In the ideal Japanese worldview everybody is of equal value and if you happen to be more skilled, somebody else would make up for that lack with harder work or more effort.  If anything coming in with valuable skills will make people more wary and on the defensive and you will have to strongly prove yourself (with time, time, more time, and lots of silly, work) before the responsibility starts flowing.  At my school it was around a year, and I worked hard on that silly stuff.  For my friend at city hall it was around 2 and the stuff was WAY sillier.

Last edited by welldone101 (2009 May 21, 9:40 am)

harhol wrote:

FutureBlues wrote:

If you want to really enjoy your time here, don't come over as an English teacher.

I take it you mean "don't come over as an ALT" rather than "don't come over as an English teacher"? What would be so unenjoyable about being a private English teacher? It's something I've certainly considered.

Because teaching English in private is illegal and you can be banned from Japan if you do it. I'd say the odds of being found out are extremely slim, but it's nothing I would consider an option.

EDIT: And of course, teaching English in private = No work visa = No way of being in Japan.

Last edited by Tobberoth (2009 May 21, 10:13 am)

Tzadeck wrote:

...your impression of the JET program seems pretty mislead.  JET is far from the worst way to teach English in Japan.  If there are English teachers in Japan doing better than JETs I've never met any of them, though I hear they're out there.

I don't mean "worst" as in "most unpleasant". I mean career-wise (since entry-level English teaching jobs all require you to be a graduate). Standard ALT jobs currently pay £20,148 per year and the JET pays £24,180, whereas entry-level non-specialist graduate jobs (for which my degree is suitable) in the UK start at around £28,000 and go up to £40,000, and that usually includes two years' paid training and a signing-on bonus. So basic English teaching in Japan, either as part of JET or with someone else, is a comparitively low-paid graduate job. In fact I don't think you'd be able to find a graduate job in this country that pays as low as most ALT jobs.

Then you have slightly higher levels of English teaching, such as in university or school as an actual teacher speaking Japanese. These jobs are obviously rarer (but ironically less competitive, I'd imagine) and require qualifications and significant language ability. But they pay more and give a greater sense of career satisfaction.

Then you have the option to teach privately. If you work out the JET salary as an hourly rate, it comes in at under 2000¥ (roughly $20). From the research I've done, the standard rate for individual students taking private lessons is 3000-4000¥, which can double if you're able to teach three or four students at a time. This is teaching entirely in English, with little Japanese langauge ability required. I'd be willing to bet that a good private tutor who is fluent in Japanese and who has a good reputation could charge even more.

This is what I mean by JET and others being the "worst". I don't mean it as an insult: I'll probably be applying this year as a backup in case my other career plan (civil service) doesn't work out. But at the end of the day it is an insanely competitive and low-paid graduate job.

welldone101 wrote:

JET is the Cadillac of ALT jobs, not in Japan, but in Asia.  Definitely look into it for a good starter to get over here.  It's up to 5 years recontacting now and some of my friends have saved over $40,000 while living the high life traveling around the continent and becoming good at Japanese to boot.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'd be more than happy to be doing JET right now. It seems like a lot of fun. By my main interest in teaching English is as an actual teacher, with teaching qualifications, working in a Japanese school/university planning & conducting my own lessons/lectures (I've considered becoming a teacher in this country, so why not kill two birds with one stone). Being an ALT is a cool thing to do in your early 20s but it's not exactly a long-term career option.

welldone101 wrote:

"Valuable asset" is a very western idea.  In the ideal Japanese worldview everybody is of equal value and if you happen to be more skilled, somebody else would make up for that lack with harder work or more effort.  If anything coming in with valuable skills will make people more wary and on the defensive and you will have to strongly prove yourself.

This is a very interesing point. Thanks.
I guess everyone thinks they're the best candidate for every job.

FutureBlues wrote:

...to convince yourself that you're going to be able to come over here and completely abandon the culture you grew up in is a fallacy.

Yeah, clearly. Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough. From what I hear a lot of people seem to go to Japan, hang out exclusively in foreigner bars, eat American food, drink American beer, speak English all the time etc. That's what I don't understand.

FutureBlues wrote:

If you're shorter than average, you'll fit in fine, assuming you don't want to sleep on a bed, or put a couch in your room, etc. etc. I, myself, am lucky because my apartment is large enough to accommodate a single bed. Two of the five people here in my town couldn't fit the bed in my room in their apartment at all.

Obviously I don't want to live in a broom cupboard - the bigger the better - but if the choice is between quality of accomodation and location, location wins every time. I'm also 5'8"

FutureBlues wrote:

Self-employed? You may find it difficult to get a work visa here without some sort of sponsorship. It's not impossible-- I know someone foreign who runs his own business in a bigger city up north, but he was a former 3 year JET and more before he started up his own business.

Yeah I wouldn't just randomly catch a plane one day and expect to be welcomed with open arms. Setting up my own business would only happen after having lived & worked there for a while.

FutureBlues wrote:

The difference here is that in Japan that what's the word... uh, steadfast desire to do things "the Japanese way" is a point of pride [...] There are a lot of stupid, pointless things you'll see people, groups, companies, etc. doing everyday and if you do it, people will think its cute that you're trying to fit in; if you don't, they'll assume that you don't understand and never will. In actuality, its typically that you understand and choose not to participate in it.

Interesting. Thanks.

FutureBlues wrote:

I have a friend who lives in Osaka. He came over here on an un-expired student visa to look for work. He rented a house, worked some freelance, all this with JLPT1 and about 5 years of Japanese (1 at a Japanese Uni) under his belt. The one and only bit of work he's managed to procure in 5 months with his credentials paid him $1,400 for about 4 days of work. Otherwise he hasn't even gotten a request for an interview anywhere, even for the company he did the translation work for [...] He told me that if he doesn't find a job within 2 months, he's heading home and giving up.

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely it's impossible to get hired on a long-term basis if you only have a student visa? That's how it works over here anyway.

FutureBlues wrote:

I've never met one of these mythical Japan-hating ALTs, but whatever.

I'd estimate that 90% of what I've read about Japan from ALTs has been almost universally negative. Most of them seem to be OK for the first few weeks, then gradually become annoyed, then after a few months they'll start posting 5,000 word essays about how much they hate the country. Another user previously confirmed that this is an established stereotype so maybe you've been lucky in that regard? Certainly the impression I get is that most ALTs prefer don't enjoy living in Japan.

FutureBlues wrote:

I don't enjoy teaching.

Oh... then why do you still do it?

FutureBlues wrote:

People are nice [...] but its the companies and businesses you have to watch out for. There are some Japanese-only places in cities especially and foreigners signing up for cell phones, credit cards, renting hotel rooms, etc. are treated differently from Japanese people.

I really don't see how this is any different from other countries. Hotel rooms aside, this is standard practice everywhere for those without permanent residency.

FutureBlues wrote:

You may be disappointed to find this out but Japanese people in Japan live pretty much the same as people in any other first world country.

Interesting. I'll bear that in mind.

FutureBlues wrote:

Personally though, I think its stupid to move here just to make some kind of lifestyle change. To move away from everything you have and dive headfirst, especially into a culture like this, you should have goals.

Yeah again I've not been clear. My goal is to work for the British civil service, living & working in Japan and overseeing diplomatic relations between the British and Japanese governments. The idea of teaching, being self-employed and whatnot is just a back-up plan in case that doesn't happen. I'd never move to another country simply because I admired (what I perceived to be) the way of life.

Last edited by harhol (2009 May 21, 5:28 pm)

harhol wrote:

Tobberoth wrote:

It has always been illegal to work as a private tutor, you're not paying taxes etc. You have to work for a school or some form of other company.

Sorry but I don't believe this. Why wouldn't you pay taxes? Teaching privately and not reporting your income is obviously illegal (as with any job in which you work for yourself), but I'd never do that. I'd set up a limited company (e.g. Harhol's Academy of English Excellence Ltd) and make myself the only shareholder. Millions of people across the world do this. I see no reason to believe why it'd be forbidden in Japan.

That would work, again though, you would have the visa problem. You can't just make your own company and get a working visa for it. So basically, you'd have to slave at a normal school in Japan for 10 years or so until you get your permanent visa, then you can become a private tutor at your own company.

I'd say it's a good idea to start with 5 years of JET in such a case.

harhol wrote:

I don't mean "worst" as in "most unpleasant". I mean career-wise (since entry-level English teaching jobs all require you to be a graduate). Standard ALT jobs currently pay £20,148 per year and the JET pays £24,180, whereas entry-level non-specialist graduate jobs (for which my degree is suitable) in the UK start at around £28,000 and go up to £40,000, and that usually includes two years' paid training and a signing-on bonus. So basic English teaching in Japan, either as part of JET or with someone else, is a comparitively low-paid graduate job. In fact I don't think you'd be able to find a graduate job in this country that pays as low as most ALT jobs.

harhol - I think you are grossly overestimating graduate starting salaries in UK.  Look here:
http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage … /p!eaLXbeX

What type of degree do you have (or will have)?

Anyway I taught privately and in small ekaiwa schools (and bars sometimes for paid socialising ) for 2 years total on working holiday visas.  Let's just say a certain percentage of my work was not known to the tax man

I had friends who were JETs and to be honest it seemed like hell for me personally (and for all you JETs please note I said "for me personally").  I worked 1/2 the hours, made (alot) more money and could have a say in when and where i worked.  This was just over 10 years ago though where the internet was virtually non existant and jobs were passed from gaijin friend to gaijin friend when their visas ran out.

Having said that the way i see things in Japan now (teaching job wise) i would suggest JET is the way to go, especially if you are looking at a more secure long term relationship with/in Japan.  JET gives you great job security, a visa and the pay is not the worst in the world.  It's a great entry point.

As for permanent residency while it is definitely doable it is not quite as easy as you may think. 

Anyway good luck to you.  From your posts you seem quite umm idealistic (for want of a better word) in your goals.  All the best.

as an add.. your almost exact same situation as me, altho im a few years younger than you being only 24 atm,  i should be starting my dual honours BA in Japanese and Media in september and be finished in 3 years.

currently being on the bottom rung of the british job ladder, with no prospects and no qualifications (job worthy) to get off it,  a degree and taking a risk at changing my position is something i need to do now regardless  so even factoring out japanese / japan.  this is something i need to do anyway  lest one day i wake up and be 50 and regret never taking a swing at anything.

are there opportunities for Fluent Japanese speaking English/ Americans to teach properly, outside of the ALT thing, such as in being a contracted teacher at a school, just like a Maths teacher, History Teacher  etc.    requiring certification obviously.  is that a realistic goal,  ALTing in Japan while doing the work to get a qualification to be an actual teacher?  or does the TOFL thing  do that for you..  sorry i should have read up on that.

Everyone seems to speak negative of teaching, but it is a worthy profession  (speaking as someone who currently labels boxes wondering how i managed to land where i did from college.. )  so done properly in a school as opposed to a human flash card would be a lot more fulfillling.

Last edited by Gingerninja (2009 May 21, 1:13 pm)

TaylorSan wrote:

1. Yes I could get a real teaching certification, but that would take an extra year.  My thoughts at this stage [...] is that perhaps a degree in communications would be good, as it would give me a well rounded skill set (some business, tech, ect.), and I could minor in education.

2. I also wonder about my age, and if I will be discriminated against as far as the JET program or teaching jobs in general (I will be 36 by that time) [...] I have heard that JET used to not bring in people over 35, but that it was changed to 40.

1. Obviously I'm not speaking from experience but I imagine it'd be impossible to ever move on from ALT if you don't have some kind of teaching qualification. ALT is unique in that it is the only job of its nature which doesn't require any qualifications at all, which probably explains its popularity. Also bear in mind that 99.9% of people there won't have a teaching qualification, and being better than 99.9% of people is always good, right?

2. If anything I'd say your age is a huge advantage. Experienced, worldly gentleman versus immature university graduate? No contest. At the very least, you'll stand out from the crowd. The fact that they increased the age limit is definitely an indication that they're looking for more mature teachers, because the program has always been oversubscribed: why welcome even more applications unless there's a very good reason for it? The downside is that there's a very high possibiliy you'll be assigned to teach older people.