welldone101 wrote:

Rent? I live in a city of about 250,000 and pay $120 a month for a school-owned 2 bedroom apartment.  When we were thinking of upgrading, we could have moved into an old house for close to $300 a month.  I assume in the actual countryside it's even better.  Rent here is great!

Is this subsidized? Are you an ALT? Or is $120 per month typical for a basic two bedroom apartment in a less-populated city? That's only 137,000¥ a year! Sounds too good to be true...

harhol wrote:

welldone101 wrote:

Rent? I live in a city of about 250,000 and pay $120 a month for a school-owned 2 bedroom apartment.  When we were thinking of upgrading, we could have moved into an old house for close to $300 a month.  I assume in the actual countryside it's even better.  Rent here is great!

Is this subsidized? Are you an ALT? Or is $120 per month typical for a basic two bedroom apartment in a less-populated city? That's only 137,000¥ a year! Sounds too good to be true...

I don't know about true, but it's subsidized by someone or something, and hardly representative at all of rents in Japan.  (The writer did say school-owned, so I assume the rent discount is considered part of the compensation package.)  A city of a quarter-million is a small city of course (in Japan), but that really isn't enough identification to be even slightly useful in terms of calculating what rents might be like.  Like, what's *around* that city?  Other cities?  Forests?  IOW, the middle of nowhere, or just a small political subdivision smack in the middle of urban Japan?

The farther you are from anything resembling an urban conglomeration, the lower your rent is going to be, of course.  In a major metropolis, US$120 a month likely won't get you a bath or a toilet, maybe not even a roof over your head.  Slum-type dwellings (really old, nasty apartments with community toilets) are 2-3 times that amount.

But the inaka is cheaper ... but not that cheap unless there is some special situation.

In Tokyo, expect to pay US$650 and up for one room, unit bath (a cramped little thing where basically one lump of plastic has been molded into your tub, wash basin and toilet).    Get as far as you can from a major thoroughfare, the motorcycle gangs will come roaring through otherwise.  Stay away from schools -- most have a chicken coup out back, and the roosters *will* wake you up at sunrise, which, due to the lack of daylight savings time in Japan is *extremely early (like 3:30 am) around the solstice in Eastern Japan. (The US instituted DST during the occupation, and apparently after the Treaty of San Francisco restored full sovereignty to Japan, the absolute first thing that restored sovereignty did was abolish DST.  Apparently the farmers in Western Japan were ballistic about it.)

If you want to live "Western (more like American) style", it's going to cost you.  Even a smallish (~70 square meter) 3 "bedroom" (3LDK) [one of the "bedrooms" will be so small that it more resembles a walk-in closet] is going to run at *least* US$2,000 a month, probably more.  I'm assuming a reasonably nice building and neighborhood.

Deals are out there, but everything is calculated very carefully by the real estate people, who advise landlords on rent and procure almost all of the tenants.  Walking time from the station?  (The farther you are willing to walk, the cheaper -- even cheaper still if you are willing to be so far out that you need a bus to get to the train.)  Do trains originate from that station?  (Can you ever possibly get a seat in the morning, or are you doomed to an hour or more of strap-hanging?)  Higher price, then.  Where is the supermarket?  It's all considered, trust me.  Very carefully considered.

The one thing that is beginning to improve for renters is that so-called "key money" can now usually be negotiated, sometimes negotiated away completely.  Obviously, your fluency or lack thereof is going to have a bearing on what kind of deal you can arrange.

I'm a landlord.  I know a little bit about rents, at least in Setagaya's Akazutsumi area. 

Why is it that many of you have lived in Japan and then returned to your home countries? Besides homesickness what are the reasons? Please enlighten me. (Yeah I just watched Star Trek and I'm psyched)

Yeah, your situation as an ALT is designed to be good. You rent an apartment from the school/BoE and have a different contract from everyone else and generally don't have to deal with the things regular Japanese people have to do.

Generally, there are a lot of great things about Japan... Onsens are great, and transportation outside of roads tends to be excellent but expensive. Roads, however, cost a lot of money to utilize and are often narrow (freeways here are 2 lanes, 80km/h speed limit), in disrepair, or redonkulous. (My city has bridges for cars that look like they were designed for bicycles.) It's easy to travel within the country, because everything is very compact, and there's a lot of beauty, as well as urban sprawl to explore. Food is incredible, I think. I love sushi, udon, soba and all that-- though, to be honest, I hate anything involving "courses" here, which are popular at enkais. Another nice thing is that you can get mostly everything you can get in the States here SOMEHOW, whether it be ordering from overseas and having it shipped to you, or finding the one random online shop that stocks it here in Japan. Ah, that's another great thing-- shipping here is typically a one or two day affair at most, anywhere on the main island. COD is, while somewhat expensive, a great, great thing.

As an ALT, my hours are great. I work from 8:00 to 4:00. I don't have club activities, I take a lunch everyday (instead of eating at school, like most ALTs), and I don't go to long staff or teachers meetings. My rent is cheap (I pay about $200 USD every month) for an apartment that is 10 minutes from the main station in the middle of town. I have fiber optic internet, money to spend on travel and my hobbies, and lots of time to do whatever I feel like.

However, even within our city, ALT situations vary quite a bit. We have 3 ALTs living out in the middle of nowhere, all three about 20 minutes from the station by car (or more) in two directions. They pay similar rent, the smaller apartments a little less, the larger house, a little more. Due to the way our city is laid out, we all have cars, so we all pay shaken and road tax every year. I can drive 5 minutes to McDonalds in the middle of the night if I get hungry, but our other guys might have to drive 35 minutes to eat that same meal.

The disadvantages to living here are, superficially, few. (As an ALT) Assuming you have a good job and maintain a healthy lifestyle you'll probably never be bothered for anything. As safe as this country is, I know a few people personally who have been victims of theft and crime, so it's not all roses and flowers on that front. (And, despite having lived in one of the most crime-ridden cities in the USA (Washington D.C.) and on the border of Juarez, Mexico, I've never personally been a victim in any crime, here or in the States.) Driving here can also be dangerous. I've never been involved in an accident but my best friend here was T-boned by a 20-something girl and had to face insurance penalties (even though it wasn't his fault-- in Japan, both parties are always at fault; in this case, responsibility was "90%/10%") and buy a new used car to replace the heap of scrap she left in her wake.

However, as an immigrant, you face a different set of challenges, I think. You won't have that ALT contract to fall back on, and you may be required to work the ridiculous hours your Japanese colleagues work, and go to all their functions, and participate in society the same way they do. You may be asked to move away from your family for months or years at a time for your job, without any recourse short of quitting. I used to have an English teacher here who would tell me he drank every day alone in his house and "sometimes" saw his wife and kids on the weekends if he wasn't too tired to drive 3 hours up to see them. Another teacher of mine would often take an expensive train in the evening after work to be with her mom (who was having some sort of trouble in a completely different prefecture) for a few hours before hopping on an early morning train to get back to work on time the next day. Another one spent an hour and a half commuting every morning to work (work starts at 8AM) and another hour and a half commuting home at night for 3 years before she was finally moved to a school within a reasonable distance of her home.

I find the things that bother me the most now involve the odd attitudes and misunderstandings that people have. Frequently, when I show people pictures of something back home, or tell stories, Japanese people are amazed: "You have fireflies in America? I thought that was Japanese..." "What, you fly kites in America? Oh man, I never imagined people in other countries did that," etc. etc. It was very difficult too, getting used to the idea that the customer isn't always right, and no, the salesperson can't open that package up to show you the product itself, and no, you won't be able to find insurance for your electronics because no one does that here in Japan, sorry. Sure, there are plenty of stores that allow you to play with their products (large electronic stores in big cities, music stores, etc.) but if your request doesn't fall within the normal range of requests, there's very little chance you're going to find someone who is willing to risk their job or lift a finger to help you. And finally, Japanese people are fiercely dedicated to the way they've always done things, and even if there's a better way of doing it they'll likely stick to the tired and true. I see students sweeping the dirt off the concrete OUTSIDE every day as though it makes a difference and I change my shoes every time the floor changes textures even though there's no real, honest reason to do that.

Furthermore, goods are expensive here. I'm not sure about Europe, but compared to the States, most everything has a premium here. I buy canon lenses, and right now prices here in Japan are $100-500 (for lenses falling within the $400-1500 range) more than the USA prices. Televisions too are incredibly overpriced. Shopping at Amazon.co.jp allows you to get away with prices that are only a few hundred over similar American televisions, but go to an electronics store and you're looking at hundreds or thousands more than you should be paying for a similar size/resolution TV in the states. I think the best prices I've seen for TVs here has been at Costco, which as expected, was doing gangbusters business.

One of the largest challenges of living here is just getting used to not having the same opportunities you would have in your native country. Your job is going to be determined by your ethnicity and/or level of Japanese and there's not going to be much chance to move up the corporate ladder or anything like that. Depending on your level of Japanese, you may find yourself ordering a lot of books and downloading a lot of television to pass the time. Your friends and relatives will be back in your home country, telling you they want to see you and you'll be thinking about the cost of a plane ticket and how hard it is to sit in a plane for 9 hours. And finally, if you're working as an ALT, you'll find that even if you have great kids and great schools, your job is still mindless and not at all fulfilling.

Last edited by FutureBlues (2009 May 20, 11:16 pm)

jorgebucaran wrote:

@FutureBlues, dude I think you don't like Japan...

I am curious, besides his stories which can't be argued, is he telling the truth about cost and living? Appears to me that this post is contrasting every other.

It sounds to me like he likes it.  It's basically all pretty much the same story as every other ALT I've worked with.  Yes, goods here are expensive.  Buy second hand and they aren't as expensive, but they don't carry cannon lenses (or used Mac computers fyi).  And definitely the culture is crazy different and difficult to deal with in the long term.

jorgebucaran wrote:

Why is it that many of you have lived in Japan and then returned to your home countries? Besides homesickness what are the reasons? Please enlighten me.

My wife is going back to graduate school.
Other main reasons for people I know include:
~Program time is expired and teaching English in Japan after doing JET is like eating the curry that astronauts get in those tubes after living in India for a year.
~Continuing with their education.
~Moving on with their careers.  Most people don't want to be a 35 year old temp. assistant tape recorder (language teacher).
~Aside from homesickness there is the obligation towards ones family.  Strong in the case of marriage (hence my return), and possibly equally strong in the case of desires of parents, siblings, or grand-parents destined to soon pass away.
~Tired of being different.  This more applies to people away from Tokyo.
~Don't want to deal with the culture long term.

If you are white, and live in the US, CA or Eng. it's a safe bet one hasn't experienced much racism.  There is racism here, and as small and insidious as it is, it's something that edges on your mind in the long term.  I can deal with it fine.  It's a lot harder for women, dealing with the racism coupled with the fact that they are woman in Japan so have to obey all those rules too.  People who don't like Japan aren't wrong or crazy; there are very strong, legitimate reasons for it to get under your skin.  Take something in isolation like not being able to make a reservation at a Ryokan (cause they can hear my accent through the phone).  So I go through my travel agent, ok no problem I get it.  But multiply that by 1,000 small things a year and you have negative balance to all the awesome things that are here.  It's just a battle in your mind which one wins out in the end.

~Moving on.  One who is in the US looking at exotic Japan and thinking "Wow there's a whole world out there I can't wait to get there and explore it." will probably be able to understand the person in Japan looking out at the world and thinking "Wow there's a whole world out there I can't wait to get there and explore it."  Most people in foreign countries are there because they love people, cultures, languages, and the world.  There are some countries that are end-zones for those people.  Like the US and Hong Kong.  Where all roads lead or cross through and you can find almost a large number of the cultures and languages on earth.  However Japan is not one of those places, and with it's strong, active campaign against any immigration it won't be in the near future.  If you want to experience the next thing, eventually you'll have to move on.

Personally, I could be here another 10 years and barely scratch the surface of the conversations I want to have or the art I want to accomplish.  However, I definitely understand those who feel otherwise and I want to make sure their rationals are understood.

Last edited by welldone101 (2009 May 21, 12:56 am)

It's not totally "out there". You bear some responsibility to try to avoid the collision. I have a perfect driving record, but there have been many many times where I had to avoid someone rear ending me, sideswiping me when they change lanes, t-boning me when they run a red light, etc. I'd say it's meant to get people to be more conscious about the road/traffic instead of just going by traffic rules and right of way. There are of course times when an accident is completely unavoidable, but I'd say that they are the minority of cases.

That said I've never driven in Japan and have no desire to own one there (which goes well with my complete lack of desire to live in inaka).

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2009 May 21, 2:17 am)

As far as the accident was concerned, there was no way my friend could have seen it coming. He was on a one lane road with buildings on both sides going something like 20kp/h passing another one lane road perpendicular to his in a T. The person who hit him ignored a 止まれ AND failed to either reduce her speed or use the mirror (which showed her where he was, but not vice versa). He didn't have a stop sign to heed and there was no mirror with a view in the direction she was coming from. She hit him hard enough to pick two of his wheels off the ground and almost knock his vehicle through a storefront.

The Japanese system of determining fault is great if you're an insurance company, because whenever anyone has any sort of accident, you can raise their rates, even in a situation like this.

And as far as Japan is concerned, like any place I've ever lived, there are good things and there are bad things. I will say this though-- if you want to really enjoy your time here, don't come over as an English teacher. Anything else-- a photographer wanting to document the real Japan, a graffiti artist looking for inspiration, an onsen reviewer touring onsens-- whatever. And get a girlfriend. That helps cut through the bullshit a lot, in my opinion.

As far as used goods are concerned, while I imagine there are probably a lot of good deals on used goods, I've never seen it myself. All the used clothing shops I've looked into in cities have cut up jeans at $100 and up and whatnot, which isn't for me at all. Lenses don't really lose any of their value so the difference between buying used and new is often in the $50 ~ 100 range for lenses worth thousands of dollars. Not worth it given the fact that most used lenses probably have fungus growth in them from all the humidity here.
I don't really buy anything else used, myself.

Another good thing I forgot to mention is cell phone coverage is pretty good in Japan. I have Softbank so my coverage (and network speeds) are bottom of the barrel as far as major carriers here are concerned, but the fact that I get to have an iPhone sort of balances all that out I guess.

I second the great cell reception. I was on AU and I only ever had one time where I wanted to use the phone and there was no reception. It was in an izakaya near one of the larger train stations in Osaka, so I'm betting the izakaya had a cell jammer because otherwise there should be strong reception.

I had cell reception at the top of Mt.Fuji though

ALT housing can go kind of bad too.  I'm the ALT in Keihoku-cho--very inaka (about 6000 people, spread out very much).  I pay 300 a month for rent--which is quite cheap--but my house is old.  Not like this-could-use-a-paint-job old.  More like I-have-an-outhouse or is-this-bathtub-made-of-rust old.  And this kind of inaka just sucks.  For one thing, the age groups of people in the town are 1-19 and 50-death.  Most people, upon graduating, want to get the hell out of this place.  So, there's not really people my age.  To make matters worse, unlike some Inaka towns there's really no sense of community. If I ever needed comforting foreigner time I couldn't get it.  There's one other foreigner in the town, and she doesn't speak English or Japanese.

Anyway, here's one major bad thing I've found out about Japan.  Anyone ever take their driving test to convert their license?  Yeah, I've seen a lot of stupid things in America, but maybe nothing quite that stupid.

Last edited by Tzadeck (2009 May 21, 6:13 am)

^ They're still comparing Japan. Love this discussion

Haha. I completely understand your point.

ALT, I believe you can search on Google or something, is an Assistant Language Teacher. ^^ You can search up "alt program japan".

But, I do understand you. It's a mixed message; "I love Japan, Japanese, and the Japanese people...I just hate how they act in their society."