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If you had to start from scratch again, what would you do?
What would you use?
How would be your daily or weekly study schedule?
Please elaborate with details. For example:
In the first 2 weeks: learning the kana + listening to learn the pronunciation and the rhythm of the language
In the next 3 months:
1 hour RTK every day
1/2 hour SRS vocab or sentences
1/2 hour SRS grammar
1/2 hour reading children's stories or simple manga
Next 5 months:
1 hour listening to Radio or watching TV
1/2 hour SRS sentences
1 hour reading books or novels
1/2 hour study with JapanesePod101.com
Next 4 months:
1 hour shadowing books or novels
20 mins scriptium
20 mins writing short articles or chatting (typing) with native speakers
and so on.
Of course, Hiragana/Katakana would come first.
I might be one of the only people here who would suggest enrolling in a course (depending on the school, etc..), but I know that's what I would do. My class was wonderful.
Except then, I would go through RTK on my own, on the side, at the same time as taking the class.
The class would keep me motivated because I would still be learning Japanese, and not just a bunch of kanji.
Then I would continue on with the class, learning the kanji for all the vocab words -- putting sentences into my SRS.
But there comes a time when the classes really don't help you anymore. You get to a point where you do nothing but read articles you're not interested in, write stupid papers about things that are boring, and --worst of all-- you don't even talk in class anymore (it's terrible, let me tell you).
That's about where I am now...Just got done with 3rd year of university Japanese, and I can't really figure out what to do from here other than independently learn more grammar and vocab.
I'll try to keep it short. I don't set a schedule, because comparing yourself to an unrealistic timetable can be a prescription for disappointment. Reality can be a real... well, you know how it goes.
1. Knock out kana (RTKana)
2. Knock out RTK, try the movie method at the same time to knock out readings. if it doesn't work, it's no biggie, but if you're coming up with stories, might as well.
3. Knock out both Genkis or Minna no Nihongo. Get the answer guide to get more example sentences.
4. Knock out KO2001. (Yes, after doing grammar. It's not like it takes that long to get the grammar down. A couple of months, maybe. Long haul, baby. Long haul.)
5. Grab an intermediate Japanese book, like An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese, and knock it out. (There are probably others out there, too.)
6. drill books, drill books, drill books... and other targets of opportunity.
All of that stuff goes into Anki. Production and recognition for kanji; cloze deletion for grammar if it works with the sentence.
Also, while doing KO2001, I don't just add stuff from that, I also add stuff from Yahoo and other dictionaries to supplement what I'm seeing in it to cover lots of other random words I come across.
Grab an iPhone. Cram it full of JP audio. It's not hard to do. Podcasts, dramas, whatever floats your boat. Anki over the web with the keitai interface wins, too. And lots and lots of Mahjong Police. (lol.) Now you have Japanese wherever you go. No excuses.
Keyhole TV. Get it. Watch it. It's free.
Reading: Buy manga you like. Start with easy stuff, work up to harder stuff. STOP buying English-translated manga. Buy Japanese manga that isn't translated. (Support those artists!) It's cheap, too... much cheaper than translated stuff. Once you reach a certain point, you can start reading kids novels, then you can start working up to light novels.
I make rules, and stick to them. It's easier than a schedule. My rules are simple ones, like, "Pleasure reading must be in Japanese, and can't be translated into English." "No subs for anything I watch in Japanese, unless I've already watched it at least once without subs."
I find that if I'm frustrated because I can't understand what I'm reading, that serves as better motivation to study than any schedule.
I'm still not that advanced, but I would recommend something similar to rich_f.
Has anyone tried learning kanji just from KO2001 without using something like RTK first? With the superior groupings and ordering in KO2001, can you replace RTK with brute repetition?
I think in truth, different ways work for different people, but whatever way you choose it is going to be thousands of hours before you are fluent. Also don't worry too much about which way is best, more important is to develop good systematic study habits, with lots of repetition. Also try and make your study fun and use study materials that interest you.
My plan:
1. RTK
2. drill hiragana & katakana
3. Tae Kim
4. All About Particles
5. core2000
<< after this is done, I'll buy/download some manga & integrate it into my studies >>
6. core6000
<< see above, but with children's books & light novels >>
7. Kodansha's Dictionary of Basic Japanese Idioms
<< by this stage I'll have ~10,000 sentences so I'll focus on improving grammar >>
8. A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar perhaps...
9. A Dictionary of Advanced Japanese Grammar...
Ok so maybe I haven't planned this far ahead...
I would do the same thing as I did, go to Japan and live there for a year, studying Japanese ![]()
If I had to make up a good SRS-home studies approach, I'd go with something like...
1. Learn hiragana and katakana. This takes almost no time at all and doesn't even need mnemonics etc, I'd say it's good to start here and get the hang of it.
2. Start listening to Japanese stuff, preferably japanesepod101.com where you can actually understand and learn, but any Japanese should do. Get used to the kana->sound connections etc. This should be done continuously.
3. Learn kanji, RtK style.
4. Buy some textbook, minna no nihongo or Genki or others such as all about the particles etc and mine all the sentences including new stuff. Mine from Tae Kim at the same time as new grammar is encountered. The idea is to learn all the basics with good natural example sentences introducing the important basic Japanese words.
5. As the textbook is completed (both parts of minna no nihongo etc), the learner should know enough to pass JLPT3, that is all basic grammar and most basic day to day words.
At this point, it's more or less irrelevant what the learner decides to do, it's all about learning more advanced grammar and improving vocabulary, getting more reading and listening and CONVERSATION done to improve all of those things.
If they like premade lists, go with smart.fm, if they like advanced stuff, just go read news or wikipedia. When you are good enough to pass JLPT3, you should be good enough to fight your way through most things using a good dictionary. If they aim for higher JLPT levels, get Kanzen Master books or stuff like that and work though.
Here's my plan:
1.RTK
2.Sentence-mining from Real World (literature, manga, T.V. series with their script, Japanese movies with Japanese subtitles, everything)
3.Japanese fluency.![]()
Brokenvai wrote:
Here's my plan:
1.RTK
2.Sentence-mining from Real World (literature, manga, T.V. series with their script, Japanese movies with Japanese subtitles, everything)
3.Japanese fluency.
Haha nice ![]()
I belive Number 3 is interchangeable with
3. Profit??!11!!![]()
My plan is
1. RtK (done) + Kana (Uni took care of that)
2. Tae Kim up to Essential grammar (halfway through this now)
3. KO2001
4. The rest of Tae Kim
5. Mine anything and everything I want, have tons of fun watching and reading native media.
6. Profit??!!111!!
Here's my ideal Plan:
Stage 1 (get down their writing system):
-- Learn Hiraganan and Katakana. Work on recognition and production by practicing them with fun words like colors, animals, foods...
-- RTK1. 30 - 50 per day.
-- Listen to podcasts, music, and animes/movies I have already watched in English.
Stage 2 (Basics of grammar and vocab):
-- Tae Kim's basic and essential grammar.
-- Mine sentences and put into Anki. Review sentences and 15 new each day.
-- Use iKnow to study basic words, and their Dictation to recognize speech better.
-- In addition to Stage 1 listening, watch random Japanese anime's/shows on youtube and try to get a grasp of what's going on.
Stage 3 (Building Up):
-- The rest of Tae Kim.
-- Continue mining and reviewing in Anki.
-- Switch to a Japanese-Japanese Dictionary.
-- Read raw mangas, and short stories. Unlicensed mangas can be easily found online at sites like http://crazytje.be/ . Work up to a novel, possibly one that was translated from an English novel I already read.
-- Play some video games/online games in Jap.
-- Subscribe to some Japanese blogs, make some friends on Japanese online communities.
-- Listen/Watch anything possible in Japanese, news, sports games, stand up comedies, work out videos, dancing tutorials, poetry...
That's it.
Here's my plan:
1) RTK (I'm up to 700)
2) RTKana (I've learned maybe half the hirgana by exposure already, but can't read a single katakana!)
3) Sentence mining from a beginners source, with audio, for as short and intense as possible (I'm thinking of using Assimil, smart.fm, or KO2001).
4) As soon as listening is up to scratch, and know a large quantity of the kanji readings, getting sentences from native sources.
And of course, the immersion environment. I'm only half arsing it at the moment, watch an hour of Japanese shows per day, subbed, and heaps of J-music. Although I'll start more heavily when I'm up to sentence mining.
And I'm not sure which material I'll use for sentence mining. I've only just read about KO2001, and it looks great. It's just a tough call, to buy a $50 audiobook, when I could go from smart.fm for free. But I have lots of time to think about that.
Yeah, I should have been more specific-- that iPhone full of JP podcasts and such, and the use of something like Keyhole TV happens from the very start. You have to listen to as much of the language as possible to get your brain used to hearing it, and to get it used to the idea that "Hey, this is important!"
I have a lot of the older Japanesepod101.com podcasts... up to a certain point, anyway. The survival lessons are handy for total newbies going to Japan for the first time. (Especially stuff on Trains, Taxis, Buses, and Hotels. Buses can be especially confusing in Japan the first time you use them.) The beginner stuff has way too much English in it for my taste, but the intermediate stuff has a lot of Japanese in it, and it's amusing. It's something to listen to while working out. Do the free trial and see if you like it. If not, move on.
I haven't tried Shadowing yet. I have the book sitting on my desk, but I haven't had time to put it into practice yet.
I went ahead and dropped $25/month for TV-Japan. It's cheesy and overpriced, but it's NHK, beamed straight into my house in the US. It keeps me honest, TV-wise, and there's the random factor, too. The randomness helps you keep on your linguistic toes. And some really interesting programs, too.
Naturally, if you can afford to go to Japan for a year, I'd recommend that, too. When I went over there (wasn't for a year, just 5 weeks), I had just started reviving my Japanese from the dead, so it wasn't too strong. It was strong enough to get around and make chit-chat, and find out where the toilet was, but knowing what I know now, I might have waited until it was a little stronger before going. I would have probably had a lot more fun that way. (There's nothing like the culture shock, though! Wow, that was something at first. Fun stuff. 懐かしい...)
I wouldn't necessarily wait for a certain point to start trying to read manga. If there's one you already follow, buy a tankubon and try to read it anyway. Feel the frustration of not being able to. Let it motivate you.
Then you can check your ability to read it as a measuring stick of your progress.
And yeah, I like textbooks as sources mostly because they provide a nice progression of stuff to learn, but I primarily just use them as mining resources. The sentences are dull, but useful. I like Genki primarily because it's really easy to mine with a flatbed scanner and OCR software like the IRIS stuff. (Which is overpriced, but useful.)
Here is what I have done so far.
-Learn Hiragana/Katakana
-Learn 2055 kanji from Heisig method!
-While doing both of the above, listen to Japanese music, or have Japanese TV in the background, etc.
Now here is what I am doing now.
-Reading the book, Japanese the Manga Way, for reference.
-Read various manga, Japanese literature, and short stories.
-Words I don't know I just look them up and find good example sentences that I like.
-I play a lot of Japanese videogames. I have a Japanese PS2 and my Nintendo DS. All my games are Japanese. ( I sold my English games to get money to buy the Japanese versions)
-Listen to Japanese music, TV, podcasts, etc.

