It depends on you. I have the complete KO2001 deck in anki, and unsuspend in sets of 10 kanji (aprox 30 sentences) whenever I feel comfortable. Before unsuspending , I cram (anki function) the 30 sentences until I learn ALL the vocab.
For words high frequency (google.co.jp > 3000000) that I don't know, I add additional yahoo example sentences.
Important: Do not do production until you finish all the deck with recognition.

The way I do it: I have 2 sets of cards, one set for recognition, one for production.

On the recognition cards, I simply see the sentence in Japanese and try to read and understand it.

For production, I put the full sentence in kana, and highlight 1 word (ONLY 1 word per card), and I have to write out that word with kanji.

I find that this works pretty well.

In reference to the first question I'm attempting to "complete" the first volume of  KO2001 in under 60 days.  I'm currently on frame 285 after approximately 28 days.  I'm not sure how I'll hold up on the last half but I'll let you know.   Currently only doing recognition.

I plan on completing both volumes and once I do I think I'll go back and do production to really "master" them.......that and I want to be able to actually hand write compounds like any literate native.

Last edited by activeaero (2009 April 24, 2:54 pm)

Thanks for all your replies!

Zarxraz and rich_f, where are you in the KO2001 books, and how long has it taken you to get there?

I can see the pros and cons of both production AND recognition. However as my (next) goal is JLPT2, I think I'll start out with recognition only. I realise and have read all the arguments against JLPT related goals when your eventual goal is total proficiency, but there you have it- I need a test-type goal to keep me motivated.

I'm wondering therefore in that context if I have enough time to do KO2001, AND prepare the grammar and UNICOM 2kyuu specific vocab in time for the test. I'll finish Heisig by the end of May- given my specific situation, what would you recommend I do?

I'm right around frame 550. I started around July, I think? I don't add cards every single day because it's just not feasible given my schedule, so I go at a slower pace. I also don't just add KO cards, I also add cards from other sources as well, so if I see some grammar stuff that interests me, I add that as well. My deck is around 7500 cards, so that is also including most of Genki I and II, most of UBJG, other random stuff, KO, a lot of stuff from the Yahoo dictionary, etc.

At first, production was really slow, because I messed around with pencils and paper, but now I don't bother with that. I just use the "finger in the air" method and I just make sure I can produce the main kanji from the kana given. I find it helps push vocab up from the depths of passive closer to the surface, simply because I'm exposed to it more often, and I "play" with it more often. I find that recognition and production are two distinct skills. It depends on what you need to do with the language. I need to be able to write.

I don't bother with the cram mode. I enter the sentences in, wait 5-6 hours, then review. If I don't remember, I fail until I remember. No biggie. My long-term rate is around 97%, so it works for me. I do the bare minimum and let Anki worry about it.

One thing I do do, however, is make sure to add extra examples if I keep failing a word, because then it's obvious that I'm not "seeing" it enough. I don't believe that Anki's algorithm is perfect, but it's Good Enough to keep shoving words you want to remember under your nose. But in order to make it do that, you need to make sure it has enough variation to give your brain enough different examples to work off of.

All the SRS really does is give you stuff to read that you should know how to read already. Sort of an instant quiz you can carry around with you. But if you just have only one kind of question all the time, it's kind of like only doing one kind of exercise, you know?

Here's an idea of what's in my deck:
993 total unique kanji.
Jouyou: 984 of 1945 (50.6%).
Jinmeiyou: 4 of 287 (1.4%).
5 non-jouyou kanji.

So while I've done up to frame 550, I've encountered far more than 550 kanji. As for how many readings I know... *shrug*.

Last edited by rich_f (2009 April 25, 1:39 am)

I'm only at around frame 400 on KO right now. I had started on it a long time ago but the way I initially approached it was not very good (I was trying to write out all kanji and understand the full sentence, instead of breaking it up). I ended up giving up at that time since it was too difficult, and then later started back with my new method I described above. I'm not really working my way through it very fast because I'm studying from a large amount of assorted materials rather than JUST kanji odyssey.

Zarxrax wrote:

For production, I put the full sentence in kana, and highlight 1 word (ONLY 1 word per card), and I have to write out that word with kanji.

Do you create a new card for each vocabulary word introduced in the recognition card, ie. if there is more than one new word, do you create multiple cards or do you choose one and go with it?

Nukemarine wrote:

I concur with Zarzax that if you do recognition and dictation (my term for production), highlight the kana and kanji sentence portion of the sentences that deal with the vocabulary words. When I dictate, I just write out the bolded word, though I still want to know what the sentence is talking about.

Do you turn the whole sentence into kana and bold the vocabulary word or do you leave the words that aren't bolded in kanji?

From what I've read in other threads, you're using TTS for a lot for your cards (correct me if I'm wrong). Do you write down the whole sentence when you do dictation with a TTS? And what TTS programme do you use?

Aw, lots of questions. (:

Hinode wrote:

Nukemarine wrote:

I concur with Zarzax that if you do recognition and dictation (my term for production), highlight the kana and kanji sentence portion of the sentences that deal with the vocabulary words. When I dictate, I just write out the bolded word, though I still want to know what the sentence is talking about.

Do you turn the whole sentence into kana and bold the vocabulary word or do you leave the words that aren't bolded in kanji?

From what I've read in other threads, you're using TTS for a lot for your cards (correct me if I'm wrong). Do you write down the whole sentence when you do dictation with a TTS? And what TTS programme do you use?

Aw, lots of questions. (:

I set up my anki deck to have many items per fact. In my iKnow deck, I have item for: Vocabulary Kanji, Vocabulary Kana, Vocabulary English, Sentence Kanji, Sentence Kana, Sentence English, Audio, Image, Note (for sorting purposes), Definitions (for words in sentences that are not clear). These came already prepared from Smart.fm so no need to type or make changes for the most part. However, it's not difficult to do the same with KO2001 as I did just that last year.

So I don't really "bold" the word. I have anki display the vocabulary word in kana and the sentence in addition to the audio and the image. It's just a matter of writing down the vocabulary word in Kanji then look at the answer to see if I'm correct.

I use TTS for my "grammar" cards that I made using Tae Kim sentences. Last year, I did write out the whole sentence, then I changed to reading the whole sentence, then I changed to writing out just the grammar portion of the sentence in question. None were satisfactory.

Now, since Anki added a type in the answer feature, I do this: Anki displays sentence in Kanji with the vocabulary portion in bold, I read it out loud and type in the entire sentence. Anki shows the answer as kana, the audio (TTS), and in VERY small print it has the English translation in addition to the grammar point (which is just the section title from Tae Kim's site). Takes me about 1 minute to review a sentence.

To be honest, I'm with Tobberoth a bit on the use of a TTS. It's unnatural so I don't like dictating with it. However, as a reference aid for pronunciation, it's good for what it does so I'm still using it with my grammar sentences. Smart.fm just has such a valuable resource in it's professionally read sentences that I'm not switching from that. But it is possible to dictate from TTS, as I did that last year. However, I really do recommend the "write out only the bolded term" approach of dictation.

I was worried about having multiple kanji in sentences at first, but really, you get used to it over time. I decided not to highlight or otherwise draw attention to kana relating to kanji in I'm testing in particular because I knew my brain would use it as a crutch. I might have a slightly higher failure rate because of it, but I think it's better that way.

So this sentence:
この通りは年中渋滞している。

Will come from this somewhat confusing kana, and it forces me to speak it out.
このとおりはねんじゅうじゅうたいしている。

年中 is ねんじゅう
and
渋滞 is じゅうたい

(translation: This street is congested [crowded]　year-round.)

You'll see the じゅうじゅう in the middle, and maybe you'll think it's something else if you try to read it quickly, but that's only if you're lazy and not paying attention to the whole sentence. If I just used a bolded or colored text for the kana I was testing, I would just look at only the bolded kana and not pay attention to the context. This forces me to pay attention to the context.

No, it's NOT easier this way. It's harder. But I find it makes me pay attention to the context.

But that's just me.

And yeah, I avoid the dictation stuff mostly because I use the Anki keitai mode a lot, and it supports neither pictures nor audio. On the upside, it keeps my deck really simple. One field for the sentence in Japanese, one field for the reading, one field for "translation," which is really just for notes. I'll put translations in there, but I try not to read them unless I can't remember what the sentence means.

I've been meaning to try the Cloze deletion mode in Anki, but I haven't had the chance yet. I've got a couple of good grammar drill books I've been itching to do, just no time to do them.

Last edited by rich_f (2009 April 26, 5:07 pm)

In my experience, it takes about 2 months for each book.  Of course, it all depends on how much time & effort you put in.

The way I learned was I focused on the whole sentence, not just on the current compound.  If I couldn't read & understand any part of it, I failed the card.  This worked well for me.

In the beginning you encounter more new kanji & vocab per sentence, but as you progress there are less and less, so it gets easier and faster to go through each one.