Thunk
Member
From: California
Registered: 2009-03-12
Posts: 102
I'm just curious, and looking for some kindred spirits who really understand what I tackle every day, while trying to fit this into any crevice of time available. Are there any other parents out there who are trying to do this with kids?? How's it going?
Anyone?
*crickets*
Last edited by Thunk (2009 April 20, 11:15 am)
Thunk
Member
From: California
Registered: 2009-03-12
Posts: 102
Yeah, it's definitely not easy as a parent. I find myself reminiscing all the time to the days I lived at home with my parents, and had summers off. If ONLY I'd comprehended how little time I'd have as an adult, I think I would have been much more productive when I was a teenager!
tamaki, you're close to me! I'm in Little Saigon! I've got four sons, ages 6 months to 8 years, and since mid 2007 (when the mortgage industry officially tanked) I have been solely a stay home parent. I don't even do contract work anymore. One thing about being a stay home mom is that even though you're constantly busy, it's mundane work, so I've found myself craving some intellectual stimulation, and this kanji stuff is its latest manifestation.
But because I'm a parent, I know I have to do this fast, because it is taking me away from my homekeeping. I made the disclaimer to my husband in March, "Give me two months...two months of being a flakey homemaker so I can learn kanji." The kids get their love, but the homemaking is suffering. Laundry, dinner, uncluttering is all more of an afterthought, now. I should be done in two weeks.
Your son has relatives in Japan? You know, my oldest kids, ages 7 & 8 are anxious to learn languages because they see me obsessing over it. My 8-year old wants to learn Vietnamese, and my 7-year old wants to write in Chinese. How old is your boy?
Last edited by Thunk (2009 April 20, 12:33 pm)
mattyjaddy
Member
From: Japan
Registered: 2008-11-15
Posts: 64
Children don't need to "learn" languages. Not like adults do. As long as they are exposed to enough of the language they will pick it up. This can work until about the age of 13. Of course, the older the child the more difficult it is to get them to respond well to being put in a foreign language environment.
Some ways to do this are hiring a foreign nanny/babysitter, putting them in immersion daycare or a weekend immersion school, or creating a foreign language environment for them at home. This last one is the least effective, but if you can get your child to interact with whatever foreign language you expose them to at home, it can help build a base.
For kids, it's not a matter of studying. It's a matter of doing all the normal things kids do while growing up, just in the foreign language. If it's not interesting and fun for them, they will likely not pick anything up.
Thunk
Member
From: California
Registered: 2009-03-12
Posts: 102
My 7-year old started writing kanji out, copying what I was doing, and I was shocked that he wrote them so accurately. Then he started asking me how to write certain words. Next thing I knew he put together, "I love mama" in kanji, which gave me warm fuzzies. Kids' brains are like sponges, true.
We just got Remember the Hanzi book today, and he's nagging me nonstop to start it. I'm not even gonna try for fluency. I speak spanish fluently, and have never had the discipline to speak to my kids only in Spanish. But giving them a little foundation while they're interested in these languages couldn't hurt. My 8-year old is a people person, and really wants to talk to his Vietnamese friends in their own tongue. It's a good summer project for them both.
timaki
Member
From: Orange County, CA
Registered: 2007-01-01
Posts: 32
Website
Thunk wrote:
Your son has relatives in Japan? You know, my oldest kids, ages 7 & 8 are anxious to learn languages because they see me obsessing over it. My 8-year old wants to learn Vietnamese, and my 7-year old wants to write in Chinese. How old is your boy?
My son is 12, and although he will eat his vegetables, he won't study his Japanese. He's "half" (my wife is issei), and all of my inlaws live in Japan. He will spend a big part of this summer over in Japan, and although he can understand some Japanese, his Japanese speaking is almost nonexistent. I worry about his ability to endure over there.
Although he was fluent in Japanese at age 3, he made some sort of emotional decision back then to become English-only. It's been a struggle for us, especially since I, the token hakujin in the family, speak Japanese way beyond him. When he goes to Japan, there are certain expectations placed on him simply because he looks Japanese, expectations that I am given a pass on. He is proud of being Japanese, but it doesn't translate into study time. I hope this trip to Japan will be a turning point in his life, and will finally get him to place some importance on his Japanese language skills.
Yeah, for languages, if your are 11, your are already too old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Period_Hypothesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period
@parents
There is a lot of research on bilingual children.
I read a bit about it.
My strongest impression over the subject is that every article seemed to connect the development of the child's language to how much the child liked the language.
I don't believe in the critical hypothesis. Lucky me, some scientists are on my side (not all of them, but some).
I believe children suffer as much for learning a language as we adults.
Learning a second language is a heavy task, specially for them at such a young age.
I remember that this regression stage occurs very often. But I don't remember how or when.
What I do remember is that eventually L1 will become dominant over L2.
This seems to be unavoidable. Also this occurs around the age of 6.
Also L2 does interfere with the learning L1.
You should expect that your children may have more trouble learning L1 than a so called "normal" child.
On the other hand, bilingual children seem to score better in divergent thinking tests. These tests are linked to creativity.
Your boy'll do great. Be confident for him and he'll succeed.
mattyjaddy
Member
From: Japan
Registered: 2008-11-15
Posts: 64
Yes. It's different. Adults brains are physically different from children's from my understanding of the knowledge and research about brains. Basically, what it equates to is that adult brains are more closed off to new connections. But adults have the ability to use analysis to an extent that children can't. This is why adults can get to high levels in relatively short amounts of time. But the lack of plasticity makes it a challenge, one that most people don't want to take up, hence, the lack of bilingual people in America (considering foreign language education doesn't begin until adulthood, as far as the brain is concerned in terms of language acquisition).
My point was that it's not very effective to make children learn a language in the sense of giving them a textbook and asking them to study. Generally their analytical skills are not developed enough to make it effective. Also, it gets them to equate a foreign language with boring stuff. Language is as fun as its content. Though it takes years and years, just through exposure doing normal stuff like playing games and watching TV and the like kids can pick up the language. Adults by and large can't. They need to use their analytical abilities to some extent to make progress. That's the difference.
To be clear, child here refers to those from 0 to about 13 and adult refers to those from about 11 and up. There's an overlap as it's a continuum. Some children might have more advanced analytical abilities, just as some adults might seem to have a knack for hearing languages and picking them up. Everyone's brain is different.
To Thunk--If your 8 year old wants to learn Vietnamese to speak with his friends, I suggest he just spend some more time with them. If they already speak English, then he'd have more luck if he got invited to their homes for dinner assuming his friends' parents use Vietnamese in the home. He should let them know that he wants to learn how to say things in their language. He should start picking things up in no time. He's old enough that he could supplement this with some light study or playing online language learning games. Finding resources with communicative activities as opposed to drills would be best. Tell him to not be afraid and go with what feels and sounds right.
Thunk
Member
From: California
Registered: 2009-03-12
Posts: 102
brianobush - Is Japanese school a Saturday commitment? I toyed with the idea of doing that with my sons, but it's expensive! You have 3 kids, though in 2-year increments. That must have been tough when they were all little. @_@ No study time for kanji then, no doubt.
Nukemarine - has your daughter been able to visit you in Japan? Is that what motivates her to learn it?
timaki - My friends who have successfully taught their children a second language in the home have delegated one parent to speak only in that second language, and the kids have to communicate to that parent in that 2nd language (their kids often believe that the 2nd language parent doesn't know English). Somehow, that method avoids a lot of the bilingual confusion for a kid growing up. Otherwise they could end up like my sister-in-law, whose grammar is all screwed up in both languages (English and Spanish).
mentat_kgs - over 85% of the kids in my sons' elementary school speak a different language in their home (Vietnamese, Chinese, and a few Spanish), but scholastically, they kick butt. It shocks me, honestly, that they can enter Kindergarten not knowing English, and score so high on everything by the end of the year.
kanjiMood! - Mrs. 100-day kanji person! How old is your kid? Are you juggling nursing and diapers? Or afternoon homework? To give you an idea of how I squeeze this into my day, when my baby naps, I sit at the table with my 2-year old while he does water colors, and sometimes that little fool tries to gank my kanji cards.
"My ka-gee!"
"Nope. My Kanji."
"No! My ka-gee!"
I have constant interruption all day long (as I should, since being a parent comes first) It's not easy, and I'm glad I have 1 week left because I'm running out of steam!
Last edited by Thunk (2009 April 24, 11:12 pm)
