cerulean wrote:

I don't mean to discourage you, but I imagine it'd be quit difficult... as in probably one of the most difficult and time consuming things one could venture alone.

It's not like learning the Kanji.  You really should find someone to train under.

I'd be interested in some training at a secluded dojo in the mountains in Japan...  I doubt simply showing up at the temple door and asking for housing and martial arts lessons for physical labor would work these days, though

Maybe if you sat in meditation infront of the main gate for a month straight, during the rainy season (not that temples in Japan are even centers for martial arts practice anymore).

I am picturing someone making an anki deck for all the steps of a kata.

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2009 April 16, 7:19 pm)

cerulean wrote:

I'd be interested in some training at a secluded dojo in the mountains in Japan...

Exactly. But I am far away from getting there yet. First is Japanese, then is Japan, then maybe that dream.

Jarvik7 wrote:

Maybe if you sat in meditation infront of the main gate for a month straight, during the rainy season

Wouldn't that be awesome? Unfortunately that only happens in Anime and some Wikipedia articles about really freaky people.

mafried wrote:

What art are you looking to study, by the way?

So what is my goal? My goal is to learn, just like everyone here. I think I would start with a lot of theory, then comes organizing the whole martial arts practice. Like is not a freaking flavor folks, whenever people practice anything, they get choose like if it was some ice cream stand, mmmm I want Karate, or... maybe Judo... nah I will have Aikido! Yeah right and I want chocolate with pistachio.

I know there is some connection between all of them, maybe it was not blatantly intended but there must be, just like with the Kanji. (not trying to seriously compare the two here though).

Of course, I am also interested in the health issue but above that (or the same level) I am interested in learning techniques and stuff like that. To put it simply, I want to learn all the real stuff and facts about the fantasy I so much adore to watch in Anime.

Last edited by jorgebucaran (2009 April 16, 9:39 pm)

jorgebucaran wrote:

I know there is some connection between all of them, maybe it was not blatantly intended but there must be, just like with the Kanji. (not trying to seriously compare the two here though).

Yes there is a connection between all martial arts. It's hard work, discipline and dedication. The willingness to place your training above other things in your life. The inability to miss a training session because you have made training such a habit you will just feel too bad if you don't go. The mental toughness you get from placing yourself in difficult situations and facing them head on. The self-assuredness you develop from years of dealing with the challenges that proper training will present you with. The humility that comes from being beaten by better trained people. The unending desire to improve yourself, not to lord it over less well/untrained people, but simply to be better at what you do.

This is the essence of being a martial artist.

jorgebucaran wrote:

Of course, I am also interested in the health issue but above that (or the same level) I am interested in learning techniques and stuff like that. To put it simply, I want to learn all the real stuff and facts about the fantasy I so much adore to watch in Anime.

I glad you realise it is fantasy. Frankly it's bullshit.

You seem to be interested in the theory. you should get some books about some arts that interest you. look on youtube. then if you want to really learn, go to a few gyms, try them out and pick one that fits what your looking for.

One piece of advice; stay away from martial art X is better/more realistic/etc then Y discussions, training is a personal thing and you should do what fulfils your specific desires.

Also, by all means train at home, you'll just never be any good if that's all you do though: "Iron by iron is sharpened, Man sharpens man" you need a partner and a competent teacher.

I would say build you physical body up first, then add on the ability to focus that in a combative manner.

So, build up your body with www.crossfit.com or a variant that works for you. If you can train yourself solely with the info provided that will help with the next step.

Learn combat arts. It's difficult alone, but when you've done 10,000 punches, kicks, blocks, rolls and simulated throws in a variety of combinations, you're bound to be dangerous just not refined. I think it's better with many others though. Helps you stay out of a comfort zone.

I did karate for 2-3 years before I got too sick and had to stop. Only went up four grades (10 to black belt), but I think I can safely say one thing: you will not be able to learn a martial art by yourself.

Firstly, you can't get what you need from a book or video. You need a model to copy, someone who can answer your questions, someone who can give you feedback.

Secondly, you need others to practice with. Your partners aren't called 相手 for nothing. You need to work together with partners to work towards your common goal.

Thirdly, you need to be graded. Having examiners who grade you gives you milestones to aspire to along the way as well as being a way to assess your progress.

Fourthly, there is so much that can go wrong. You need constant attention and correction from an instructor. Very minor variations in the angle of your wrist, the part of the body you strike with, the posture of your body, and so on, affect not only the power and effectiveness of your techniques, but can lead to health problems, injuries and overuse disorders if they are performed incorrectly.

So find yourself a dojo. In fact have a look at several before you commit to one. Make sure the instructors are good communicators, that the dojo has a positive, friendly atmosphere, and that health and safety are given high priority.

Last edited by Raichu (2009 April 17, 5:03 am)

I'd like to bring my, ahem, 17 years of martial arts experience to this thread.

You can learn *some* things from a martial art on your own, especially if you're a beginner.  What you need are videos, not books or tapes, but videos.  I hear the internet has some.  Decide what you want to learn first, it may be weapons, striking, throwing, groundwork, etc.  Weapons and striking will be the easiest things to learn the most about, on your own.  Watch a few different videos before you decide what to do.  You can always learn more later.  Be sure the videos have a lot of solo work.

On your own you can learn basic movements like strikes, kicks, blocks, weapon strikes, etc.  You can hit things like a bag, a ball on a string or even a tree's leaf to practise power or accuracy.  You can work footwork, and then footwork combined with strikes.  You can work combinations.  Things which you can't learn on your own are things like timing, distancing, reacting to attacks, counterattacking, throws, joint locks, submissions, wrestling, etc.  You can't spar, so you will never know what it's like to get hit, to trick someone, to be tricked, to wear someone down, just the general chaos of another person trying to do things to you.

Your attitude is very important to this endeavour.  You need to check and double check that you are doing what the person on the video is doing.  My advice is to watch the whole section you are going to practise, then try and do it, then watch it again and again, perhaps watch it while you are doing it if possible.  You need to think about what you are doing while you are doing it.  Try to do it slowly at first, with skill and control, later you can ramp up the speed.  Consider any keypoints the instructor is giving you and pay special attention to those points.  A mirror will be useful sometimes at the beginning, but later, once you have the movement going well it will be better to not use a mirror and just feel the movement, to internalise the bodily sensations of it.

You might need to get some equipment or make some.  Perhaps a heavy bag or a staff or something.  Don't worry if you can't find the exact same things.  I practice some staff stuff with a broomstick I bought at the hardware store, it works perfectly.  Find your space to do it and deck it out.  Buying stuff will motivate you to continue, you can reward yourself by getting more stuff.  There are a lot of homemade equipment recipes on the internet if you look.

Try to do a little bit every day, instead of three hours once a week.  Start off with manageable sessions, choose one technique for one day, watch the video, drill and check and drill again.  Making a list of things to work on is very useful, especially if your source is a video tape.  Later you will not be watching the video so you need some reminder of the things you need to practise.  At first do something until you are bored or tired, then either stop or change to a different technique.  Don't burn out, keep it varied.  Don't be afraid to try things which look hard, but also don't jump ahead of yourself.  If you have a tape, follow the order of it at least for the initial learning phase.  When you've tried everything once you can pick and choose what to practise.  If something is too difficult it will be obvious, so trust your feelings.

Just remember to be critical of everything you are doing.  Another good thing is to consider why you are doing something, what purpose a given technique has.  If you are learning to punch, you can punch strongly on a bag, or you could try punching a particular spot on the bag to work accuracy, or do some combinations.  Is this punch to the head or body?  Is it a knockout punch or a setup to something else.  How are my knuckles connecting to the target?

Lastly, try to play around with things.  Some MA, particularly Japanese MA, is a bit too strict and uncreative.  It's good to try stringing attacks together, or imagining someone is attacking you and thinking what you would do.  You don't have a partner but you can imagine one.  Be mindful when you are doing a technique.

Listen to Raichu.

Also Phauna makes a good point here

phauna wrote:

Things which you can't learn on your own are things like timing, distancing, reacting to attacks, counterattacking, throws, joint locks, submissions, wrestling, etc.  You can't spar, so you will never know what it's like to get hit, to trick someone, to be tricked, to wear someone down, just the general chaos of another person trying to do things to you.

If you're just learning the moves from a DVD you may as well be doing a fitness DVD.

ファブリス wrote:

I'm curious, is Wing Chun practiced in Japan? Is it popular?

In Wing Chun there is one practice called "Siu Lim Tao" where you do forearm exercises with another student, and eventually you could do it eyes closed because the aim is to develop sensitivity in the forearms, any kind of pressure, to react without thinking. So in that regard I can't see how you would learn that alone.

5 of the 24 years I've been training MA (I'm writing this just after coming home from a 2 hour BJJ session) were spent in WingTsun. I would love to know if anyone studies WT/WC in Japan.. Anyone know anywhere??

ファブリス you are partially correct, SLT is the 1st form and teaches the fundamentals. What I think you mean though is Chi Sao which is a drill that is focused on developing sensitivity in your body.

basic single arm chi sao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XfeGq90 … mp;index=7

and a wooden pole practice of the same at 8:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2QTkqwT8lY

It's not as hard as it looks, at least to start with, but rapidly becomes more challenging when you learn to respond with your whole body.

There is no way on God's green earth you could do this alone poles/wooden dummy withstanding.

Last edited by mistamark (2009 April 17, 8:23 am)

Sorry for the double-post.

I want to second what mistamark said right after my post aways up the thread.  mistamark speaks from a place of wisdom, and did so more eloquently than I could have.

jorgebucaran wrote:

Thanks man. I am serious when I say first Japanese, then Japan.

And I'm serious when I say you're wasting your time.  There's no where you can learn Japanese faster than in Japan.  It'll focus and drive your studies as well, as you learn what you need to get by.  It sounds like you've got a lot of fantasies about Japan that are, well, fantasies.  Bullshit is a better term.  Japan (and training in Japan) will be very different from what you're expecting.  But you may come to like it anyway.  There's no way to know until you go, and there's no reason not to go right now.

Just do it.  Put it on a credit card if you have to.  You'll find a way to pay it off.

Where there is a will there is a way.

jorgebucaran wrote:

... but first things first. Are you living in Japan?

I did for a short while.  Did the whole "stay in a temple and train with an ancient sword master" thing.  So yes, I'm speaking from experience.  But in the end I decided that all of it was not what I really wanted so I returned home.  I still go back regularly to train with my teachers (in fact, I just bought tickets for next month).  Maybe you'll make the same decision, but you won't know until you've tried.

jorgebucaran wrote:

mistamark wrote:

"Iron by iron is sharpened, Man sharpens man" you need a partner and a competent teacher.

I agree with you and that's what I will do. In the mean time I should eat some theory and start practicing the basics.

*sigh* No.

jorgebucaran, I'm being firm on you because I genuinely want to help.  Eating theory and practicing the basics on your own is not efficient training.  Just like how learning the kanji the traditional way is not efficient.  Find yourself a good teacher (which art matters less than the quality of the teacher), and you will progress extremely quickly.  Trust me, it'll be worth every dollar (bolívar?) spent.  Don't waste your time fooling around on your own.

phauna wrote:

mistamark wrote:

5 of the 24 years I've been training MA

D'oh, I thought sure I'd be the ranking guy amongst a bunch of language nerds.  Oh well.

It's certainly surprising how many martial artists there are here!

Pretty much information about various martial arts can be found in the "Fight Quest" series made by the Discovery Channel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_quest
Great series - spend way too much time on it for the last couple of days.

jorgebucaran wrote:

I do desire to learn martial arts and it's in my life to-do after accomplishing learning the Japanese language.

You really needn't serialize them.  At least enroll in the local Aikido dojo while you're in Venezuela (I'm sure you'll be able to find one).

jorgebucaran wrote:

mafried: My plan may sound trivial but simplified to the max is to learn Japanese and move to live and work in Japan. If I don't know Japanese it would be rather hard (I don't know, wouldn't it?)

Actually, no.  I assume you speak English as well as read and write it?  And Spanish as well?  There's various gigs you can get teaching English or tutoring on the side (presumably Spanish as well--there's less demand, but also less supply).  You won't get rich, but you'll make enough to pay for rent, training, and booze.  (What else do you need?)

jorgebucaran wrote:

If I take a plane and go right now how am I going to do to stay?

At a hostel, at first.  About 2500 yen a night.  Ask the owners (they will speak English) and people you meet about any "gaijin house" nearby.  These are in the range of 1000-2000 yen a night, although you often arrange stays by the week or month.  It's the slums of Japan... but this is Japan we're talking about--they're usually remarkably clean and safe.  Just use some common sense and make sure you see the place before you commit to anything.  Get a rice cooker and eat from home, and it can be made pretty affordable (by 1st world travel standards).  There's plenty more live-on-the-cheap tips and tricks if you seriously want to give it a try.

jorgebucaran wrote:

My interests have always been Aikido and Kendo. But those are interests like a kid that dreams to be an astronaut or fireman. Yeah, why not? But most of the time is just dreaming and never accomplished. My point is that I could discover another martial art is far more interesting, complex and fulfilling than those, but how would I know? I need to learn a bit about all of them so I can make a choice.

...

*What do you think is the most interesting martial art and why do you think so?

There's a thread on this subject already on the forums, started by some of the other martial artists that have already posted here.  Search for it, but I'll give my own opinion here as well.  I train in Bujinkan ninjutsu (武神館武道体術), and occasionally in a few other arts as well, but the Bujinkan has become the center of my training and I see no reason for that to change hopefully ever.  As for why... it started out as a physical thing, then in true Karate Kid style turned into a spiritual/philosophical journey.  I've found a teacher now that I could spend a lifetime learning from, so why divide my time between that and something else?  I know that's a bit vague, but training is a personal thing.

Aikido and Kendo are easy to get into.. Kendo may or may not be what you're looking for though.  Kendo is a sport art, and you seem more like the kind of person that would appreciate a traditional (lineage) art.  Aikido is modern-era, but in the same spirit as a traditional art, and much more accessible.

jorgebucaran wrote:

*What is realistic in terms of how far you can get to in/with martial arts?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

jorgebucaran wrote:

*What is the limit of what a human can accomplish in/with martial arts?

Like I know you can't fly or tread over water but

*What are the most amazing things that have been achieved in/with martial arts?

Um, read up on physics and physiology to find out about that.  There's no magic energy balls or flying techniques.  A assure you, it's all rooted in the real world.  If the fantastical movie/anime-style martial arts is what you're looking for, I'm afraid you may be disappointed in what you find...

Aikido will be impossible (except for breakfalls which would be useful to learn) as I said before, but Kendo contains many things you could learn on your own.  Most weapon arts have a heavy emphasis on solo training because you can't practise them as safely with another person.

Get a stick, bokken or shinai and find some video with some basic strikes.  Train those strikes in the air, get your wrist strength built up, your shoulders will probably hurt as well.  There will be some combinations of strikes you could train after that.  When you're bored with the air, get a tennis ball on a string and try to hit it with the same strikes.  Even striking a heavy bag will give you a good feel for hitting something solid like a person.

Practice footwork combined with the strikes.  Try to walk forwards and backwards when you strike.  A good video will show you such things.  Getting coordination of your strikes with footwork is a long journey in itself.

Also don't limit yourself to one martial art.  If you want to learn how to do a flying, spinning kick then why not go for it?