Thanks Nukemarine, that looks excellent.  This forum always has the best resource suggestions.   I have already noticed a ton of Anime I would like to watch, so I foresee a lot of distraction from more traditional study effort.

So, are there any good channels? It lacks all the good stuff from keyhole TV like TV Asahi, NHK etc...

Last edited by Tobberoth (2009 February 23, 11:58 am)

As in KDE, it's automatically enabled for all applications in GNOME by using the right-click menu.

Last edited by Tobberoth (2009 February 23, 12:37 pm)

cerulean wrote:

oo, they just showed an anime called Kino's Journey.  Looks interesting.

My Japanese skills aren't good enough for watching without subtitles yet, so this is perfect.

Thanks for linking this.

My recommendation (I'm not fluent, so add lots of salt) is watch only once with English subtitles to get the idea what's going on. After that, make it a point to never use them for that movie or show. If you do use subtitles, Japanese kanji are best after that.

For what it's worth, my problem was I did not rewatch the dramas after watching them with subtitles. So if you can set it on loop, you might get a better listening benefit from it.

QuackingShoe wrote:

And if you encounter subs or transcriptions FIRST, you're consciously listening for things you know are coming. It's just not the same skill as processing language as it's being spoken.

Depending on your level, that might be preferable.  At my level, it probably is.  Much higher than where I'm at and it would not help much at all.

Well, I did get the link off the Japundit rss feed so many people saw it.

There is a "waiting room" for the Animellive with about 4 series (complete) that can be viewed. GTO, Lucky Star, Ichigo and Excel Saga.

Plus, there are other channels with live Japanese content.

As for the listening, well,  I'll leave that debate as it's going to boil down to individual preference. Are you cheating yourself? I don't know. Watching a movie in Japanese that you saw once with English subtitles? Watching a movie dubbed into Japanese? Watching a movie based off a manga you read? Watching with Japanese subs? Hell, just watching the movie (visual cues to what the dialogue is about)?  Watching the movie multiple times?

People are going to approach these all different ways. Ok, I may "only" get 80% comprehension, but "only" when I have Japanese subs but that's a damn site better than I was a year ago.

Last edited by Nukemarine (2009 February 24, 5:04 pm)

http://wwitv.com/portal.htm

I'm personally very picked with my output. It's kind of odd, it was reading AJATT that I first started to think about only learning japanese form proper native Japanese. Not mining tanaka corpus etc. Then I suddenly noticed that Khazu even RECOMMENDS reading bilingual books, watching shows dubbed into Japanese... is it just me, or has he misunderstood his own concept? A book translated from English into Japanese isn't native Japanese. Watching Star Trek dubbed into Japanese is NOT good natural input. He of all people should know.

Tobberoth wrote:

He of all people should know.

I find his writings to be ...  Scattered.  It's almost stream-of-consciousness.

As for sticking with legit Japanese input...  I think as long as you understand that what you're hearing might be a bit off, and you do have real input as well...  It should all be fine.

It's like learning from Anime: If all you watch is Anime, you'll sound like an Anime character.  Imagine if people learned English from cartoons!

nac_est wrote:

I don't know about the quality of Japanese dubs, but I wouldn't think it's so bad as to become a hindrance to learning.

When they started translating books from English to Japanese, they would use 'he' and 'she' a lot even though it wasn't used much in 'real Japanese'.  Now the language has actually changed some because of it.

Those kinds of things are what we are being warned about.  They're perfectly valid Japanese, it's just that the language isn't normally used like that.

nac_est wrote:

I disagree, Tobberoth.
Do they dub American movies in Swedish? They do it in Italian and the language they contain is perfectly healthy and I'd recommend it to anyone studying Italian without hesitation.
Of course a lot is lost in translation, but that doesn't mean that the final product uses wrong language.
I don't know about the quality of Japanese dubs, but I wouldn't think it's so bad as to become a hindrance to learning.

You think Italian dubs are good for students but that's because you're italian. Same as me, I'm fluent in English so I don't see the problem with English dubs. However, it's not the same for a student. When you're learning a language, you will mimic what you hear (that's the whole point of AJATT rememeber? Don't translate, imitate.) Imitating non-natural sources isn't a good idea. English translated to Japanese, even by natives, is not natural. It's English soundning. That's why the posts at slashdots are so easy to read: it's English with Japanese words.

Khazu says listening and learning from non-natural Japanese sources = you speaking unnatural Japanese. Thus it would be a very bad idea to learn from translations.

> tobberoth

Actually I have been worried about the issue you raised for quite a while now....I spent some money on american movie japanese dubbed like matrix , lethal weapon , etc.... but I keep wondering "to what extent is it really natural ?"  I tried to alleviate my worries by telling me that it wasn't my only input source ,that I was listening anime , japanese news , drama and so on .... . Still it's nagging me .

But your last sentence confused me  : you say that Khatz disapproves of non-natural japanese source . I clearly remember Khatz himself talked about buying his favorite show in japanese/chinese though : will smith movies ,toy story , etc...

Is he advocating for a mix (the same way I'm doing) ? did I miss his point ? does he contradicte  himself ?

Last edited by ghinzdra (2009 February 26, 4:02 am)