Impending Heisiglessness

Index » RtK Volume 1

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musigny Member
From: 室 Registered: 2008-06-06 Posts: 62

About a week ago I found AJAT and RvTK. I downloaded the sample RTK file, ordered the book from Amazon and got started. In three days or so I'm going to hit frame 276, i.e. the end of the line and Amazon hasn't even shipped the book yet. My local library doesn't have it either.

I don't want to lose momentum. Any advice?

bodhisamaya Guest

Go to the study section and continue with your studies.

http://kanji.koohii.com/study/index.php?framenum=276

cerulean Member
From: Ohio Registered: 2008-05-09 Posts: 133

Yes, there's been discussion as to whether or not the book is even necessary to start the Heisig method..  Some say the site is all you need.


For me, I've used the book up until Heisig stopped suggesting stories.  I really should take a look at it again as every so often he makes noteworthy statements.


Still, I feel the book is a great resource, and the best way to begin Kanji studies.

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musigny Member
From: 室 Registered: 2008-06-06 Posts: 62

Thanks for the advice. I've already ordered the book and frankly feel like anyone using this site owes it to the author to buy the book even if they weren't to use it. None of this would exist without his work.

I guess I'll just keep going without the book until it arrives.

bodhisamaya Guest

musigny wrote:

I've already ordered the book and frankly feel like anyone using this site owes it to the author to buy the book even if they weren't to use it.

I....must....fight....urge....to....debate....yet...again!hmm

woodwojr Member
From: Boston Registered: 2008-05-02 Posts: 530

Yeah, Heisig had an interesting idea, but has an astonishingly poor implementation of it. While I admit it would take a lot of work to set up the framework for an alternate, I think being based around Heisig's keywords and order is one of the biggest handicaps this site has.

~J

musigny Member
From: 室 Registered: 2008-06-06 Posts: 62

bodhisamaya wrote:

I....must....fight....urge....to....debate....yet...again!hmm

namaste^

nest0r Member
Registered: 2007-10-19 Posts: 5236 Website

For me, there is no debate. At least pretend to think the book is necessary, for the sake of this site. ;p

musigny Member
From: 室 Registered: 2008-06-06 Posts: 62

woodwojr wrote:

Yeah, Heisig had an interesting idea, but has an astonishingly poor implementation of it. While I admit it would take a lot of work to set up the framework for an alternate, I think being based around Heisig's keywords and order is one of the biggest handicaps this site has.

~J

Woodworj, do you use this site or the method? Do you use different keywords? I'm interested in hearing your approach.

Thanks, Mvino

Reply #10 - 2009 January 27, 6:00 pm
ファブリス Administrator
From: Belgium Registered: 2006-06-14 Posts: 4021 Website

All techniques can be improved with time.

Heisig's system provides a common reference for everyone to share their mnemonic aids and their progress. It has been discussed many times but so far I'm not aware of an established alternative that doesn't have too many cons that outweigh the pros of RtK. Unless we find something radically better, ... RtK works.

This site doesnt technically have a handicap since it was made for RtK (^_-)!

Reply #11 - 2009 January 27, 6:09 pm
woodwojr Member
From: Boston Registered: 2008-05-02 Posts: 530

Between when I registered and August, I used the site and the method quite precisely. In July I began having progressively less success, for reasons that I can't begin to identify in any rigorous way. After a brief bout with attempting to make a directed acyclic graph out of the kanji and radicals followed by a period of computerlessness (ok, I had my XO, but damned if I could find a way to add CJK support without an additional working computer), I abandoned the method entirely for a period of time. I was at about 1600 then.

A few weeks ago, I got fed up with my poor production ability (compounded by the fact that Anki broke its ability to suspend a question independent of the entire fact a few versions ago) and imported the RTK decks. I then went on a process of unsuspending precisely those kanji that fit into one of the following categories:

1: I already know it
2: I almost know it (composed of elements I have familiarity with and strong recognition capability)
3: It's composed of elements I know and is sufficiently common (this is a very loose definition; stuff outside the 2000 most commonly used is usually out unless it's very easy, 1000-2000 most commonly used has a lower threshold, and 1-1000 is in; if I see it a lot, it's also in).
4: I really want to know it for some reason (possibly including "is a component of one or more kanji I want to know").

This has resulted in a pile very distinct from Heisig order, and with a much larger number of immediately useful kanji. Since then, whenever my stack of unseen, nonsuspended cards grows short, I reapply the above criteria with my new knowledge and any additional reading I've done. Additionally, I make liberal use of this technique to cover up for bad keywords.

I also keep an eye out for sentences that incorporate kanji that I've learned that I haven't already obtained sentences for; the end goal is either to turn off the English keyword (which would require a lot of work, as right now I only add disambiguation text if it's necessary) or to simply delete the Heisig decks.

So that's my approach. It isn't a drop-in replacement for RtK (among other things, it relies heavily on the fact that I learned a fair bit of Japanese before doing this), but for me at least it corrects for the two critical problems with RtK: bad keywords and bad order. The first is obvious; arguing the latter is for another topic and has probably already been done.

But yeah. I credit Heisig for giving me the idea, but I think it would be very easy for someone with a DAG to make a better system. (Actually, I think the DAG itself is a better system, as that way you can just progress along whatever branch is most relevant to you at the moment).

~J

Last edited by woodwojr (2009 January 27, 6:10 pm)

Reply #12 - 2009 January 27, 6:13 pm
musigny Member
From: 室 Registered: 2008-06-06 Posts: 62

Thanks for taking the time to explain woodwojr.

Reply #13 - 2009 January 27, 6:28 pm
woodwojr Member
From: Boston Registered: 2008-05-02 Posts: 530

Nae problem.

~J

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