Thanks for the confidence boost! I recently finished RTK1, and am searching around for useful sentences and grammatical points. I've already found some helpful things, such as using iKnow. I'm working on several SRS decks using various sentences and am exploring what kinds of sentences and study methods work best for me post RTK1... I'm also trying a bit more to avoid English stuff. Since I'm still figuring some things out, progress hasn't been so fast yet.... But there has been some noticeable progress, and every bit of new knowledge encourages me more. Seems like there's so many possibilities after RTK1 that it was a bit daunting at first, but now it's getting rather interesting! It's nice to hear from someone who's in a similar position that has achieved so much in such a short time.

Awesome. Once you finish Breaking into Japanese Literature, there are a plethora of other books with similar format by Kodansha. Using these books I was able to follow an abridged version of Snow Country, and In a Grove. Of course I frequented the definitions, but it was still a unique experience. I can now fully understand Soseki's 1st dream and most of the 3rd without looking to the translations. Have you tried shadowing any of the stories with the audio on the site? That's tough stuff.

While studying using this sentence method, did you go kanji>kana or kana>kanji ? Also are you able to re-produce those sentences on paper with kanji/kana from memory if you were to hear that sentence?? I am actually almost done the rtk..142 to go and i have been trying kanji>kana.. but what i noticed was, i am able to read the kanji if i see it, even on websites...but suppose if i hear that same sentence..i have difficulty putting it down on paper...I remmember before i even started rtk..I often saw this kanji 私 and i'd be able to recognize and pronounce it because it's everywhere ! but when i wanted to write it down from memory.. i couldnt...
Oh and by the way.. the shadowing method is explained on this site. http://www.foreignlanguageexpertise.com … study.html

Last edited by NinkuEx (2009 January 07, 11:27 am)

kanji to kana. doing it the other way would be too time consuming. I write a small proportion of the sentences I review in my deck (it varies from day to day). My goal is not handwrited production, it's absorbing language, recognizing characters, their sounds and their meanings.
I read the sentence in kanji, try to guess the meaning, check the pronounciation and optionally write it. If I make the smallest reading mistake, I fail the card. If I hesitate too much when writing the word in kanji, I fail the card if the word is important to me. If I make a kanji mistake, I fail the card again.

I don't know if I would be able to write a sentence just by hearing it, at least with a pen and paper, but often I can write the whole sentence after having read it, without needing to check it again. This doesn't happen with fresh cards, so this effect is due to repetition. This isn't easy from some words like keizai where the meaning of the compound cannot be predicted on the base of the heisig keywords alone.
Knowing the readings of characters sometimes help more than the meaning (such as 件　(けん)　in 事件;　"じょ" and "せい" in "女性"、"せい"　in "政治"、"政府"). If the kanji are rarely used and the keywords are not related to the compound, things get very tough. Sounds+meanings usually allow me to solve ambiguity and know what to write. I imagine this gets even easier as your are more advanced in japanese and know many more readings.

I guess with this method, I'll only be able to write on paper the most frequent items from memory. If I had a strong urge to write everything by hand and memory, I would really go the other way (kana to kanji).

Hmmm, can't wait to get to that point .

ohhh, okay..so its all about exposure in the end..i'll continue with kanji>kana and see how it goes. As for reading books.. i am not up to the task to be doing that yet but what i do is.. take written script dialogues of drama's that i am watching from http://www.dramanote.com/ ..use furiganizer (http://www.furiganizer.com/) to get the readings.. then print it and read it out. I dont understand alot of the vocabs but i still read the sentences.

Tobberoth wrote:

I can relate to your problem but I wouldn't worry. Words get imprinted HARD in your memory as you're exposed to them. You should be able to write 私 since it's in RtK, your problem is probably that you don't remember which of the RtK kanji is used to write わたし but as you read a lot of books etc, you'll see enough of the kanji in your mind to remember which one it is and then you'll be able to write it.

I agree. I also find that writing out the sentence during recognition, or at least the word, during reviews helps a lot. I tend to do this with verbs.

Just to add my success to this post...

While I quit RTK, I did most of another method of learning the kanji that is similar.  I also did several hundred in iKnow and another vocab program.

A few months ago (before iKnow) I couldn't read simple manga like Yotsuba& at all.  (I understand maybe 1 in 30 words...  It was torture.)  Today, I can read 2/3-3/4 of each chapter without even considering a dictionary.  It's enough to know what's going on and enjoy the chapter.

I haven't done any AJATT at all and I'm sure (if I could find the time and energy) it would have gotten me to this point even faster.

Over the last few days, I've come to realize that it is definitely possible to learn written vocabulary using too much passive context (as in sentences) to the point where a given word is unrecognizable on it's own.  For example, I've been playing a sound novel game understanding everything at over 90 percent accuracy because it is written out in sentences, but the game settings screen took me several minutes to fully understand.  It's not that I don't know the words in terms of their pronunciation (although context seems to help me remember that better as well); it is just that their meanings aren't popping into my head.  I also have this problem at Japanese grocery stores, restaurants, or anywhere else where words are typically not always in complete sentences.  If I would have dwelled more on each word in terms of writing them out  while reflecting upon the meaning when I was first learning them as some of you suggest, I might not have had this problem.  Apparently, much of my vocab is still way too passive.  At least I'm guessing that's the problem since I never focused much on production before.

As for a solution, I'm thinking about drilling single words again in addition to sentences, which was something I was formerly somewhat opposed to.  I am also going to try more vocal output even it means talking to myself. 

Last edited by Dragg (2009 January 07, 5:44 pm)

Just a quick update. I recently tried this test again:

http://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/LevelCheck/Kanji/01.htm

The first time I passed it, I think I was at around 400 known kanjis (it includes meaning+readings), around a month ago. I scored 600 this time.
I compared that to the scores obtained in structured courses given in Belgium. Students of one particular institute view around 600 kanjis over 6 years. The scores of the most advanced students was in the 300-600 range. They mainly work with flashcards and learn kanjis with their readings. I hear the basic kanji book mentionned a lot.

Admittedly, this only tests kanji knowledge, and I'm sure their japanese is much better than mine. But as far as kanjis are concerned, it proves it is possible to progress very fast in that department, and that Heisig transfers well to learning sounds too.

I would be immensely interested if there were scientific experiments comparing Heisig to others methods, especially traditionnal study by learning radicals and phonological complements, or just rote memorization.

Last edited by gilozoaire (2009 January 25, 10:55 am)

As long as we're giving scores, I got around 1600.

tibul wrote:

I go from Kanji to kana, i kinda believe that going kana to kanji goes against the input method in that your doing production instead of just input, production will come in time when you have had enough input...

You're mixing up input/output with production/recognition by the way. Production in the sense of kana to kanji, or audio to kanji IS input.