Although I think your Japanese is a little better than mine, I have the same problem. Listening to more Japanese didn't help me learn things I didn't know.

After I finish with RtK I'm planning on inputting snippets of audio into SRS. I want to use something like the anime Monster, because has about 70 episodes, and there shouldn't be any exaggerated dialogue.

I am curious to hear how others have overcome this hurdle.

Not to give you an oversimplified answer, but first I would say you should try and listen to more and more Japanese. Just because there's no way you'd get good at something with out spending a lot of time doing it.

For unknown words, I personally just ignore them. As I do more and more with the language, they tend to get fewer and fewer. I can read manga and novels at the same ease you say (ignore dictionary and understand 80-90%), and I find that I also have the same problem listening. But most of the time, I don't even care about all the unknown words, I just try and listen for what I do know and go from there. So I guess, focus on what you do know and not what you don't know, is my solution. The reason is because it's just boring and hard to try and figure out everything I don't know, and when it's boring like that I don't do it.

Another thing I do, I read an entire manga series then watch the anime based on it. That way I understand practically everything when watching it. =]

I hear you. I've encountered (am encountering~) all those problems too. My advice:

1) Don't lose hope. Keep watching.

2) Find the lines if you can. It was posted awhile back that there was a book with all the lines to Tiger and Dragon. I ordered it used from Amazon.jp for about $15 total. It is not 100%, but it is pretty accurate.

3) If something doesn't make complete sense, skip on. Like, if you can't understand which homonym it is, just keep watching and forget about it. There are probably a lot of other things which you can learn from the show. When it is time for you to learn it (when it clicks), try to learn it then.

4) Watch things that interest you so you can watch them over and over.

5) Repeat things even if you don't understand them. Try to imitate the characters. This is more fun with variety shows/comedian acts. They are typically short and have a lot of energy so it is fun to copy them. If the comedians are famous, you can also probably impress any Japanese friends if you get good at the act.

6) Since you already have a high Japanese level, watch things you understand 90% of if you can find them. Try to understand that 10% that is above you right now. While doing that, also watch things that you may understand 50-75% of. For me, I like to watch Disney movies for easier stuff. It actually is MUCH easier than most tv shows/adult movies.

I've made an MP3 of an episode before and loaded it in audacity. Most importantly this allows me to easily replay parts if I want (since you can select a beginning and end in the middle of the track). You can also slow down the speech while keeping the pitch the same. Slowing down the stuff isn't too useful for trying to improve understanding, but can be really good for trying to improve your production since you can try to copy the actor's way of speaking very closely.

Audacity is also useful for me because I am trying to use tv show lines in my SRS now. I can export a section of the MP3 from audacity very easily and then use it in my SRS card.

Oh, and if you can find anything you've watched a lot in your native language/watched when you were a child, those things are goldmine. Again, I have to give out props to disney.

I thought you had basic fluency? Shouldn't that cover most of the content you hear in TV programs?

I tend to watch my anime with subtitles, because that's the form it usually comes in. I do understand most of what is said, though. I'm not sure when that happened... I suggest heavy vocab study, reading, and, of course, more listening.

If you can't make sense of something, don't worry, chances are you'll figure it out without trying later on.

I buy used variety show, karaoke and documentary DVDs from Japanese rental stores off ebay for about $1 each.  Most have Japanese subtitles and I try to follow along while I listen.

Tobberoth,
After watching a lot of subless shows, I've grown content with not knowing a lot of what's being said.  I think this also because for the past year, I've been listening to Japanese at all times aside from sleep and part time job.  Reason 1 is that the listening untangled what was all gibberish, reason 2 is that I've become used to hearing stuff I don't always understand. 

As for looking up words in the dictionary, I've gotten to know when I -really- need to look up a word.  For example, the word is being repeated a lot within a minute's time, and I still can't quite figure out its meaning from context. Or, if it's a word that sounds familiar already (for instance, the word "懐中電灯” is said in a radio show I've heard like 5 times in the past week, and I suddenly hear it in a drama.)  Or sometimes there's just one word said that will explain a whole situation in a show.  If it's said clearly enough, I look it up.

I watch shows on repeat, but only the first watching of it has my full attention.  During the next few hours after watching it, I put it on loop mode, resize the window so that it fits in the corner, and do SRS reps and read manga.  As soon as I get tired of it, I watch/listen to something else

alyks wrote:

Another thing I do, I read an entire manga series then watch the anime based on it. That way I understand practically everything when watching it. =]

...and you can get a lot of audio for your SRS!  I've been doing that with the Fushigi Yuugi anime lately.  I've been trying to watch the episode as quickly as I can after the chapter it corresponds with, but usually I'd rather hurry up and read new material in the manga

Has anyone ever gone through an episode with the manga book/scans infront of you?  That combined with shadowing sounds like a good idea.  I've done this with manga+drama CD when I wasn't very good at reading.  Manga+anime is most likely a lot easier to follow though since less scenes are usually left out than with drama CDs and you can see an animated version of the manga.

This sounds stupid, but it's the right answer:

Just keep watching.

Listening is something that you can only improve by doing it.  I'm in the opposite situation from you, actually.  I think I understand more spoken Japanese than written thanks to having watched years and years and years of Anime with subtitles.  For me, it isn't hard to pick out words I know and understand what's going on, but reading is slow and tiresome because I just started in the last year.

yeah for drama just do what someone else said. Watch it, read the script and read/learn what you couldn't hear.

For like game shows/talk shows obviously find one YOU LIKE that also has like WORDS all over the screen (that way you can look up the words when everyone laughs hysterically, etc). For me I love watching shouwa x heisei (kat-kun's interesting sometimes- crunchyroll - has subs on early eps), I don't think it's that hard to understand for the most part as long as they don't have some old man guest (shouwa).

Watching it while just ignoring "stuff you dont' understand"t like I understand to an extent but if you don't work at it at all and only passively watch there's not much point. You have to in some way learn words/phrases while you watch either directly from the show or something.

Only way you're gonna be able to improving your comprehension with drama/talk/variet shows is by watching them and lots of them. They talk a lot more natural and normal (faster/mumblier/etc) than anime characters so obviously it's harder. I don't think listening to a crap load of anime is gonna help you understand drama/varity show, I tihnk listening/watching variety/drama/talk show themselves will be the directly helpful.

Honestly whenever people write my listening comprehension is good I usually doubt them because lots of people say they just listen to anime ( can people please just say what they can comprehend better now - if they just say they can comprehend/hear anime well that doesn't mean much in my opinion). Because comprehending/hearing talk/variety show is just completely different.

Last edited by howtwosavealif3 (2008 December 31, 1:58 pm)

It tends to be much easier to listen to women than men.

In female speech, I mainly have difficulty just when there are words that I don't know.  In male speech, I often have difficulty even when I know the words.

Last edited by vosmiura (2008 December 31, 2:34 pm)

I think if you mention you watch Japanese with subs, it's best if you say with kanji subs or English subs. Tobberoth probably meant he watches with Japanese subs.

I concur about listening more, and maybe find dramas with similar talking (rapid fire pace, different accents) which I think Trick, Tiger and Dragon, IGWP, and Kisarazu Cat's Eye meet the challenge. This way you have the script online for verification but you're getting ear training.

I'm no where near this point, so take the advice for what it's worth (ie stolen from others).

Dragg, I think they're saying that they're not going for 100% (or even 90%) comprehension. I'm sure they're still doing the formal study portion every day: get a word, sentence, parable or something new into their brain and/or SRS. But like some of them, I find it tedious to rush to a dictionary at every unknown word. I hate doing that with English.

No hard info on it, but it "feels" like you go with the flow, your brain notices when something new you learned is in the mix. It also might notice a new word that it can piece together due to context, kanji or both.

That said, it's been pointed out you can go with the flow (not stopping for dictionary look-up) and still get your training for unknown words later. Now, with manga, it's easy to use a highlighter (or infrared marker) to note new words you can go back later and learn should you desire. Heck, there may be a tool that lets you "time mark" video on your computer (activated by the space bar or something) so you can go back a see parts you don't get.  Plus, video with scripts, or even better text sub-title files make getting detailed explanation easier

What Tobberoth is mentioning above is that there's no way to do this with Comedy/Variety shows. Not everything is sub-titled (mainly the punch lines), it's rapid fire, it's lacking context (TV studio, lots of culture referenced humor), it's slang. Personally, if you can understand it, I think you can qualify yourself as fluent.

Yeah, like nukemarine said, I'm also reading some manga and eating dictionaries.