cracky wrote:

I'm on the Thor side, him or maybe Hulk.

Monosyllabism is not a religion.

Officials: Obama to reverse abortion policy
By LIZ SIDOTI and MATTHEW LEE, Associated Press Writers Liz Sidoti And Matthew Lee, Associated Press Writers – 41 mins ago
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_ … tion_ban_8

cerulean wrote:

The first two may be a little rude, but have fun.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1695 … 895we0.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/749/hahaha3.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9140 … 510zg6.jpg

and I encourage everyone to do this:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1458/1 … 258qd1.jpg

The first link was a little overly spiteful I thought but I like the second and fourth ones.  Religion is not of itself bad.  The path of the atheist or agnostic is a courageous and often lonely one.  Not everyone is that strong.  It comforts and helps some to personalize a "Big Father or Mother" who likes us and has all the answers in a complex and painful world.  It is only when religion enters politics that it become dangerous.   That bill withholding funds from poor countries who do not agree with Bush's religious beliefs caused tremendous suffering.

Just for the record i myself don't have the kind of straight forward disgust as represented in the first comic.  There are some parts of it I think are humorous though.

I find the great thing about science is that nothing is ever absolute..  Theories are challenged and what we call "Fact" is tangeable in relation to what we observe.

The theory of a creator is just as valid as any other unproven theory, and there are so many theories based on things we don't know a whole lot about!  The only thing we CAN know is what IS true based on our physical world.. If we observe something in opposition to that, then it's clear there's more to learn.

What we can learn from experimentation is as real as the truth can be.. Right now, there is not enough evidence to declare a creator, so why make such a leap of faith?  Why not instead analyze every last detail and learn about the world we live in. Question all of it, and find the answers.  Perhaps science will lead us to the conclusion that there is a creator/creators..  But for now, why make extreme assumptions when we can instead get hands on and discover the truths behind the universe piece by piece?

Your message about close minded atheists is true for many.  But it's not true for me.

Personally I imagine we are millions of universe-lifetimes away from total truth..  Actually, what we can learn I feel to be limitless.


If one thing irritates me about creationism, it's not the theory itself.. it's that those pushing for it full-heartedly disagree with the theory of Evolution, which is an apparently real part of nature.  There's plenty of facts to fill in, but the basic theory is held together by what is observably clear to any person. By all means, challenge the theory.  Science encourages it!  There's only one stipulation, and that is it must somehow be provable or suggest the truth based on things we already know.

Why is it so difficult in a devoutly religious person's mind to let the belief in a God co-exist with observable science??    Science isn't an oppositional force, and it's certainly not a religion..   It's simply man's way of cataloging knowledge.  I suppose the problem must come in when what is known to be true by observation directly conflicts with what someone's bible says.

There just seem to be so many faithful people out there who see Science as 'the bad guys' instead of the information their brothers and sisters have learned about 'God's creation'.

"Oh, and scientists aren't gods. That's the problem with today's society, we've erected men who discover things that *already exist* out there, and let them tell us what life is all about. And then we get all crazy and sweaty and start calling people who believe in god "idiots" like in these comics..."

That's the point though, to classify what already exists.  You seem to have the wrong idea.  Stop thinking of it as "SCIENCE" and more as science .  It's not scary, it's not sinful.  It's 100% natural analysis.

Also, I think scientists should be respected more in today's society.  Rather than focus on the day to day life of Paris Hilton or any other bimbo, why not encourage real education and a connection with nature?   The more I read about Japanese culture and it's past, the more I respect the ideas behind Buddhism..   It's so vastly different from the harsh and childish sort in the West that I have experienced all my life.  12 Years of Catholic education was more than enough for me to deem my former religion BS..   

But again, I urge everyone to find their own truths.  Not based on something told to them by someone else, or someone who has been dead for a thousand years, but by what they themselves discover to be true. Get out of your hillbilly town and learn about the world because chances are someone else has a different idea, and your preconceived idea is simply one of many.

ファブリス wrote:

Question everything, yeah, but atheism is also a religion and a dogma for a lot of people.

Without a common core of beliefs, there is no dogma, we just want to see some evidence for god, or alternatively, never mention god again.

ファブリス wrote:

Already in that first strip one can see the condescending, filtered and limited view of a self proclaimed atheist.

I don't see why proclaiming what you are is a problem, I'm an atheist and also an Australian, a juggler, a father, etc.  Everything is filtered through people's personality.  Condescension is not always unwarranted.  If someone tells me they know the meaning of life and also every rule one needs to follow in any situation, then I'm going to call them on it, I want some evidence for that.

ファブリス wrote:

I'm neither religious neither a "religious atheist". I believe there is such a thing as LOVE that those damned scientists have yet to explain.

Is it really so hard to believe that love is just a flow of hormones?  It's rather like all our other emotions, nothing particularly special.

ファブリス wrote:

Self-proclaimed atheists have just as limited a view of the world as that of religious fundamentalists. They have a overly simplified view on religion.

But you are different, right?  You're not an atheist and you're not religious, so what are you?  It's pretty cut and dried, you believe in a religion, or you don't.  You believe in the supernatural, in ghosts, angels, devils, genies, whatever, or you accept that the world has rules and they are observable, and therefore they can one day be understood.

ファブリス wrote:

For example, you'll find that those Christians who have had spiritual experiences have a much different idea of God that the layman person that calls themselves a Christian.

Non-religious people can have spiritual experiences, through such means as meditation, drugs, orgasm, sleep deprivation, near death experiences, oxygen deprivation, etc.  It just means our brains do that, why they do that has little to do with religion.

ファブリス wrote:

So what to do with this ? I suggest to do like meditators do : give space to your mind. Giving space for your mind means you give yourself the chance to raise your consciousness. It happens just like that, sometimes you get a "click" about something. or you get an insight about how dumb or how selfish you are, and you feel better because you feel like something was peeled off your eyes and you are seeing reality "truer" than before. All the time you keep your mind "tense" or you lie to yourself about reality by sustaining those rigid principles about religion or atheism you are just refusing yourself the chance to have those insights and to grow as a human being..

I don't get why you think atheists are somehow rigid and inflexibly dogmatic.  They merely don't believe one single claim out of all the many claims in the world.  They don't believe that there is a god who made and does everything.  Any other thoughts or ideas they have are entirely their own.  I presume you don't believe in santa claus, does this make you a dogmatic, rigid, close minded person?  Just because you don't believe one single thing in this world?  It is the religious people who are full or rules and dos and don'ts.  Atheists have no creed.

ファブリス wrote:

Btw, that's a lot of nice theory and I'm no better than anyone. But from experience, I used to think too much and realised after many years that I never really got anything good out of it. The heart is a better guide.

Thinking too much may not lead to eternal bliss, but it doesn't mean no one should think ever.  Thinking is like doing exercise, of course you could overtrain, but most people are too lazy to do this much exercise (or thinking).  What you get out of something is surely not the only important factor in deciding what to do in life.  Perhaps the process is just as valuable.

ファブリス wrote:

Oh, and scientists aren't gods. That's the problem with today's society, we've erected men who discover things that *already exist* out there, and let them tell us what life is all about. And then we get all crazy and sweaty and start calling people who believe in god "idiots" like in these comics...

Are you serious?  There isn't enough scientist worship in the world, quite the opposite I find, people dislike intellectuals and shun knowledge.  Learning the rules of a system allow you to create new things more easily.  Science is the theory and technology is the practice.  Either way there is a lot of creative thinking going on.

Agreed, Atheists are too emotional.  I'm a nihilist.  You should all jump on the bandwagon with me... or not... who cares

bodhisamaya wrote:

Other than Buddhists, are there Atheists here who feel it is more likely that matter is not a prerequisite for consciousness?

I would find the idea easier to swallow if damage to the physical structure of the brain wasn't capable of changing or destroying the very essence of a person.

Oh, and I guess it would also help if I wasn't a godless, materialistic heathen who finds the idea of free will absurd...

Our consciousness is limited to things we learned in the real world.  For example a person born blind does not see pictures in his mind's eye.

I'm not sure if I believe in a "creator".  The stories I learned in childhood about Christianity, although interesting, are no more convincing than Santa Claus.  But as for belief in unknown realities that we cannot understand?  Almost certainly.  It would be very unscientific and closed minded to believe that we are "it".

Last edited by vosmiura (2009 January 24, 5:38 am)

stehr wrote:

I'm a nihilist.  You should all jump on the bandwagon with me... or not... who cares

Dream Yoga is required of advanced practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism.  In order to be given the title of "Lama", one must complete a 40 month training.  During that time, a student is never allowed to lay down while sleeping.  He/she must sit up in meditation posture and continue meditating through the sleep cycle.  Midnight to 4am is the time alloted for this practice.  The other 20 hours in a day are spent in study, debate, meditation and prostration.

~*~*~*~*BEWARE/WARNING! THIS IS AN EXTREME AND INCREDIBLY PATHETIC, EGOTISTICAL, AND WASTEFUL CASE OF NECROPOSTING*~*~*~*~

Hey   So I just wanted to formally apologize to everyone who was involved in this forum at the time of the stupid debate that I instigated, consuming this and several other threads.  I realize...that none of you probably even remotely care about my pathetic apology (and rightfully so), and that you probably couldn't care less about what I'm about to tell you. But whatev

I've officially abandoned my fundamentalist beliefs. 

Wow! Yeah, I still believe in God, but I'd have to classify myself as a "Deist" of sorts.  But whatever. The classification doesn't matter. Lots of things have prompted this, but they don't matter.  More importantly, I now consider *reason* as the most important thing in dealing with any so-called "religious" matters (and "revealed" religion in particular).  To be quite honest, my interactions with you people in this forum are one of the things that have helped me realize this. 

So, Fabrice, Bodhisamaya, Kazelee, Tobberoth, Alyks, and the many others who been helpful, patient, and tolerant with me in these matters, you have my deepest and sincerest apologies

Last edited by igordesu (2009 October 26, 7:30 pm)

Haha. Ouch. That's definitely a fair call.