This study, along with others, was also cited in this http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ … /index.htm article, which I just linked in another thread and that has also been linked on the AJATT website. You might be interested.

I feel that the term talent is an inadequately overused one to describe someone with 'superior skills' in something. This in turn gives them some super-human aura which makes others think they will never attain their goal, this is absolute bullshit. Anyone can play the violin, anyone can learn 10 000 kanji, you just have to have the will to do so. Now, how one obtains this will is a whole new story in itself. This, is my definition of talent.

Tobberoth wrote:

I don't really see this as 10 000 sentences vs 10 000 hours, I see it as being born talented vs 10 000 hours.

If one person does 10 000 sentences in 200 hours and another one does the same amount in 10 000 hours, they will be equally good. The time it took is irrelevant, the important part is the amount of effort and the quantity of the studies.

Studying more is important, not studying for longer periods of time.

I don't think 10,000 sentences alone is the key here - it's the quality of the sentences. For example, you could study 10,000 sentences like これは魚です、これは犬です、これは車です、and still never become fluent. For a beginning student, this kind of sentence is essential. But once the pattern is absorbed, more advanced sentences need to be learned to really master the subtleties of the language. This IS simply a matter of time. During the learning process, changes occur in the brain's neural connections. It takes time to feel comfortable with what you have learned and prepare yourself for the next step. It's the same reason why practicing any activity for two hours every day is better than studying it for 14 hours one day a week. You have to give time for those connections to form.

I've been adding sentences at an average of just over 10 a day, which is my target. This way it will take me a bit under three years to hit 10,000 sentences. I'm not worried. Whichever sentences I add next year are likely far too difficult for me to add now. As I get more advanced, the kinds of sentences I add become more advanced. It's not simply getting any 10,000 sentences. It's getting good quality sentences that push your understanding a bit at a time.

Anyway, though learning by sentences is a powerful tool, it's not the only one I use. (there's manga, movies, converstations, etc.) So the 10,000 number is just a nice target, it's not a magic number that you hit and suddenly, bingo, you're as fluent as a native speaker. As an interesting aside, if you read deeper into the Antimoon site, where Khatzu found the sentence method, the guys who pioneered what we call the 10,000 method were already advanced English students when they started it - but it was through the sentence method that they were able to polish their English and bring it to the level of native fluency. I don't think that changes anything for the way we have been using it, just throwing it in as an interesting sidebar.

Talent is discovering what your strengths are and playing to them.

It determines how quickly you can acquire a new language.

I don't think this really proves that 'talent' doesn't exist though.  Some people will still take to things better than other people.  What it really shows in the end, is that it really becomes insignificant after everybody puts in the time to become really good at something.

I like the statement in the Fortune article that mentions clearly inherited traits and states "those influence what a person doesn't do more than what he does."

Careful with that one. You could get good at being bad  at something.

mentat_kgs wrote:

Great, kazelee, you just made me spill my coffee. You should warn people before telling this kind of joke.

One could also say that you should know to never browse the RTK forums with a beverage :p

There was great wisdom in it anyway..