CaLeDee wrote:

Jarvik7 wrote:

The addon uses Heisig's bad keywords though so it would lead to bad habits if you learned word usage using it. For example 丁 never means street or anything remotely like a street, ever.

True enough, the closest thing I could find related to street was 丁目. Strange.

Yeah I was expecting that to come up, but it means "~th division". I'm sure that's what Heisig based the keyword on though.

I've actually found my English spelling has gotten quite a bit worse since I've been immersing in Japanese. I'm so used to spelling things phonetically. Thank god for firefox spellchecker.

Jarvik7 wrote:

関西外大 right? I was there 2006-2007.

Hmm.. No.
枚方キリスト福音教会
I'm thinking about applying to a Japanese university so I looked 外大 up and it looks interesting though! Thanks!
Hmm.. It seems to be mostly in English, but it has some interesting courses.. Is it possible to just take some courses there in "open university" style? Say, if you only want to take some Japanese courses in your free time or something?

shakkun wrote:

I'm so used to spelling things phonetically. Thank god for firefox spellchecker.

Phonetic means that you read it the way it is written. right?
you can say that again!
Non-phonetic is just so illogical!
I owe my English writing to spellcheckers!

Last edited by alantin (2008 November 10, 1:21 am)

kazelee wrote:

bodhisamaya wrote:

I wish English was phonetic at least.  Wouldn't it be fun if it incorported Chinese Characters though!

That might not seem like such an outrageous idea in the near future.

hhmmm, yea uhh... Be careful what you wish for???

Well, I umm a ... I for one welcome our future Sino- "liberators". I would like to point out that although I do wear a "Boycott Chinese Goods!" t-shirt, that t-shirt was in fact Made in China. :-)

How much does America owe China again?

Last edited by bodhisamaya (2008 November 10, 2:51 am)

Jarvik7 wrote:

The addon uses Heisig's bad keywords though so it would lead to bad habits if you learned word usage using it. For example  never means street or anything remotely like a street, ever.

"I was walking down the slice (of bread/cake) one day".

Nooo?! but then...what dose it mean i was pretty sure i'll see that as a "street" meaning quite often :XD:

shakkun wrote:

I've actually found my English spelling has gotten quite a bit worse since I've been immersing in Japanese. I'm so used to spelling things phonetically. hmm Thank god for firefox spellchecker.

hahaha that's soooo like me!!! :highfive: and my grammar is starting to deteriorate a bit too...not to mention my romanian one witch almost disintegrated XD

alantin wrote:

shakkun wrote:

I'm so used to spelling things phonetically. hmm Thank god for firefox spellchecker.

Phonetic means that you read it the way it is written. right?
you can say that again!
Non-phonetic is just so illogical! tongue
I owe my English writing to spellcheckers!

THANKS for telling me what phonetics is XD i was starting to wonder
And yeah...i think french is really hard..almost hate the pronunciation XD...and i'm quite glad romanian was a phonetic language to begin with

I guess Heisig put "street" just because the 丁目 thing. 4th street -> ４丁目.

Street and blocks aren't the same thing? I called my street my block before I moved south.

kazelee wrote:

Street and blocks aren't the same thing? I called my street my block before I moved south.

A street is a street. A road. A line of ground where vehicles drive. A city block is an area in a city where houses are built close together, usually has 4 streets/roads around it.

mentat_kgs wrote:

Depending in wich part of the world you are, the way you refer to address is different. Here we ignore the concept of blocks. Only streets are contained in addresses. I'm sure Heisig was talking about the address when he chose the keyword, because it fits well that way.

I agree, that's probably the reason. My opinion why it's a bad idea is that people might think that 丁目 actually refers to a street when someone is stating their address, which isn't true, people living in the same 丁目 only live in the same city block, they do not have to live on the same street.

Tobberoth wrote:

kazelee wrote:

Street and blocks aren't the same thing? I called my street my block before I moved south.

A street is a street. A road. A line of ground where vehicles drive. A city block is an area in a city where houses are built close together, usually has 4 streets/roads around it.

Dictionary wise, perhaps, but not when it comes to conversation.

I should also note that when people speak of blocks it the manner you suggest it is usually preceded by city.

I agree, that's probably the reason. My opinion why it's a bad idea is that people might think that 丁目 actually refers to a street when someone is stating their address, which isn't true, people living in the same 丁目 only live in the same city block, they do not have to live on the same street.

Eh....?

The kanji has 2 primary meanings. The main one is "division/slice" which is used in 丁目 (~th division) and ~丁, a counter word for knives, scissors, block of tofu, etc. The other meaning is simply "t-shape" (much like 十 has a secondary meaning of cross shape).

Saying ~丁目 means street is like saying ~枚目 means paper. They are both just counter words. (Yes, you can say 豆腐の一丁目 to say the first block of tofu)

Thanks for that info.

Last edited by kazelee (2008 November 10, 4:41 pm)

Tobberoth wrote:

Two people living on parallel streets can live in the same city block, without having the same street address. When you state your address in Japanese, you simply say what division/block of the city you live in and a number, you don't mention what road/street and what number on that road/street... it's not a good system, but it should probably be kept in mind which is why I find the Heisigs keyword to be pretty crappy.

The system in use has its plusses and minuses. Imagine if every street name was written in kanji (using nanori readings of course). There would be endless miswritten addresses and lost mail. Using chou-chou subsection-building number can give your exact building within the ku purely numerically. On the down side it's hard to give directions to people. Does anyone know what China/Taiwan/etc use? Using 丁 as a counter is exclusive to Japan according to my dictionary.

Rather than thinking of chou as streets or blocks, it's better to think of it as part of a zipcode/postal code. For example, anyone who has a postal code starting with V9A lives within a couple blocks (bigger than a chou normally is but still) of where I used to, with the second set of 3 characters demarking smaller areas within that postal code (down to the street or section thereof). Postal code would also be a bad keyword, but it would still be more accurate than street (which overlaps with 町, 街 etc anyways).

If anyone is really interested here is a breakdown of a mailing address near my apartment (slightly changed to protect the innocent):
〒540-0009大阪府大阪市東成区玉造3丁目17番15号 サニーアパートメント201

〒540-0009: Postal code
大阪府: Prefecture
大阪市: City
東成区: Ward
玉造: Town
3丁目: District
17番: Block
15号: Building number
サニーアパートメント: Building name (not always necessary)
201: Room number (for apartments) alternatively can be 3階 for a floor number for a business etc

Note that many people don't even bother to write the 丁目 etc in the final part, leaving it as 3-17-15.
Also, not all chou are divided into 番地, only the ones with lots of buildings. In that case this address would be 3-15 not 3-17-15.

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2008 November 10, 6:03 pm)

kazelee wrote:

Calls it a street as well. Guess keywords get around.

KANJIDIC was originally just a 100% copy of Heisig's keywords that later got expanded & corrected a bit. Most sites use KANJIDIC for reference cause it's the only thing for free. So yeah, keywords get around. On a side note, this is also why KANJIDIC is so unreliable and I never use it 漢字源 and 学研漢和大辞典 all the way. Lately I've actually been preferring the 漢和大辞典.

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2008 November 10, 5:39 pm)

三省堂 makes a good 漢和 dictionary? I think you're just thinking of 大辞林 (国語 dictionary)