Who writes these days?

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liveone New member
From: japan Registered: 2008-10-26 Posts: 6

There is a constant stress on writing the kanji to reinforce the learning process, but who actually bothers to write nowadays? The reality is everyone uses a computer; types using a romaji keyboard in hiragana and looks up the kanji if the computer's first choice is wrong. Does Heisig's method, particularly with RTKII need any modification?

alyks Member
From: Arizona Registered: 2008-05-31 Posts: 914 Website

Could you go very long without writing in your native language? No. If you want to learn Japanese to a high level as well, you have to know how to write.

If you really don't think it's necessary, then don't use the book.

Tobberoth Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2008-08-25 Posts: 3364

liveone wrote:

There is a constant stress on writing the kanji to reinforce the learning process, but who actually bothers to write nowadays? The reality is everyone uses a computer; types using a romaji keyboard in hiragana and looks up the kanji if the computer's first choice is wrong. Does Heisig's method, particularly with RTKII need any modification?

And most people who write ANYTHING.... essays, reports, forum posts, articles etc use spellcheckers. Should we stop teaching people how to spell in school?

Personally, I see Heisigs absolute strongest point as the ability you get in writing kanji... It's amazing, I already write kanji better and faster than most adult Japanese. While I COULD use a computer (or Japanese cellphone) to check how a kanji is written, it makes perfect sense to be able to write them by hand. Before I started with Heisig it happened me several times that I had to write kanji without any form of electronic help and I often failed.

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kfmfe04 Member
From: 台北 Registered: 2007-10-21 Posts: 487

As an aside, you can tell a lot about someone's personality through their handwriting, maybe even more so with Kanji/Hanzi than with Western manuscript.

I find my handwriting improving with practice through RtK - recently I've reached the point where the writing is legible/correct, and I can begin to focus on stylistic elements now - the fun part!!!  The funky thing is, I can be more "creative" with Kanji than with kana.  Maybe because Kanji is more complex, you can add more of your style without losing the recognition value.

mentat_kgs Member
From: Brasil Registered: 2008-04-18 Posts: 1671 Website

I write. And I'm not even in japan. Cd labels, game records, parlor tricks...

snispilbor Member
From: Ohio USA Registered: 2008-03-23 Posts: 150 Website

People aren't gonna use a computer to type up, say, a little yellow sticky note.  Or a CD label, or notes in the margin of a book, or writing on a cardboard box, or....

People write all the time.  smile

cameron_en Member
From: 横浜 Registered: 2008-05-15 Posts: 57 Website

I always have a notepad on my desk, and I'll doodle kanji or sentences on it as they pass through my head. It is important to write occasionally unless you want to remain slow at writing in Japanese forever.

Codexus Member
From: Switzerland Registered: 2007-11-27 Posts: 721

Even if you're sure that you're never going to write Japanese yourself (for instance, if you're never going to go to Japan, and even in that case there are many reasons why it could be useful), it's necessary to learn to write in order to learn to read well, if you just train recognition, sooner or later you're going to run into problems with similar looking characters.

Raichu Member
From: Australia Registered: 2005-10-27 Posts: 249 Website

I write kanji for relaxation.

Nukemarine Member
From: 神奈川 Registered: 2007-07-15 Posts: 2347

In the process of learning the kanji via the component method, you know how to write it.  Now, you don't "have" to write down the kanji during the review. Heck, you don't even have to pretend to write it down (finger on palm for example).

Now, if you never go to Japan, you'll probably never "need" to write kanji. Since I'm in Japan, I find the ability to write Kanji useful in some cases. Should I work at a Japanese company, the ability to write would become mandatory.

YMMV depending on your situation.

zazen666 Member
From: japan Registered: 2007-08-09 Posts: 667

liveone wrote:

.......but who actually bothers to write nowadays??

Virtually everyone in the whole country.

If its your second language, I can see the argument that you could first focus on reconizing then writing. Its just that with Hesigi, you really get the writing for free!

Squintox Member
From: Toronto, Canada Registered: 2008-07-27 Posts: 292 Website

I love writing Japanese.

In the future, when I'm hopefully fluent in writing Japanese, I want a dream log, diary and many other secretive things in Japanese.

I may even put writing above my speaking in terms of priority. Don't really see many oppurtunities to be using my speaking really...

Tourne Member
From: Germany Registered: 2007-08-18 Posts: 57

liveone wrote:

...who actually bothers to write nowadays?

I write.  I've just come back from 2 weeks in Japan, and I wrote my journal by hand every day (not in Japanese sadly, I'm not good enough yet).  One of the simple things I really love about Japan is the fabulous selection of paper, pens and brushes you can get.  I can spend many happy hours in stationery stores there.

I get a lot of pleasure from writing the Kanji down as part of my RTK review process.  Each one is like a little calligraphy exercise.  It is almost meditative.  And I hope to try and do some actual 書道, when I get the time.

annabel398 Member
From: Austin TX Registered: 2008-08-04 Posts: 80

Another vote for writing. The beauty of the kanji and hiragana is what first drew me to Japanese.

kazelee Rater Mode
From: ohlrite Registered: 2008-06-18 Posts: 2132 Website

liveone wrote:

There is a constant stress on writing the kanji to reinforce the learning process, but who actually bothers to write nowadays? The reality is everyone uses a computer; types using a romaji keyboard in hiragana and looks up the kanji if the computer's first choice is wrong. Does Heisig's method, particularly with RTKII need any modification?

Writing kanji solidifies them visually and kinesthetically.

It's not about whether you will actually write or not. It's about aiding your memory and allowing you to de-construct complex kanji by strokes and elements.

When you start sentences. The new vocabulary will stick better when you actually write the sentence out.

http://www.foreignlanguageexpertise.com … study.html

You can't do what ^ he ^ calls scriptorium if you don't write.

Writing is almost a necessity for studying any language.

vosmiura Member
From: SF Bay Area Registered: 2006-08-24 Posts: 1085

I did RTK even though I don't see myself needing to write a lot of kanji.  I don't get to write much English by hand either these days... mainly I write in word processors, presentation slides, email, etc.

Anyhow, RTK is still very useful because it really helped to get the kanji clearly in my head & make a lot fewer reading mistakes.

Even before using RTK, I used to write the kanji out a lot to help memorise them.  I wrote them over & over by hand many times.  With RTK, I didn't have to write them out many times because I learned them much faster than writing them out over & over.

So, RTK = learn kanji writing with LESS hand writing.

Raichu Member
From: Australia Registered: 2005-10-27 Posts: 249 Website

How do people manage to avoid writing? Just in the last couple of days, I wrote:
- a shopping list
- a note to my son
- phone numbers my wife gave me over the phone
- some diagrams and notes to help me understand a document I was reading at work
- some Japanese notes to help me understand the manga I'm reading
Some days I wrote a lot more. I can see some people might not have that much to write, but wouldn't that be the exception rather than the rule?

As far as learning kanji, though, even if you learn to just recognize them, writing reinforces what you are learning. Why do you think you are asked to write notes in school rather than just being given handouts to read? The act of writing helps you learn and memorize.

Furthermore to get kanji looking good you need lots and lots of practice. I've been practicing Japanese writing for years and I still can't even get some hiragana looking right. Now if your goal is simply to communicate, then even badly written Japanese does the job, but if you want to have some pride in yourself and not have your writing look like that of a child, then you need to practice writing at every opportunity.

Last edited by Raichu (2008 November 03, 1:39 pm)

CaLeDee Member
Registered: 2008-08-31 Posts: 170

Since I have become accustomed to using Anki recently for studying, I have been writing a lot less. I still do my daily reviews on this site and write out the kanji, but other than that I haven't been writing so much.. I'm doing RTK2 now, mostly with Anki and I think I might start writing out the kanji to help me remember their readings better.

I was talking to a Japanese girl a while ago and she said because people have become so accustomed to using their cellphones and emailing so much, more and more are starting to forget how to write some of the kanji. However, I think writing will never become something that can just be set aside and never learned, especially if you are wanting a decent job. When I'm in the mood for it I love to take my time writing kanji as best I can but other times I can't be bothered and just scribble it.

QuackingShoe Member
From: USA Registered: 2008-04-19 Posts: 721

I think Kanji look their best scribbled. There's a charm to it wink

kazelee Rater Mode
From: ohlrite Registered: 2008-06-18 Posts: 2132 Website

Doesn't matter, the looks. Making it mean something to you, more than a picture and a keyword, is what matters.

Though I've been known to take my kanji with a side of chicken scratch from time to time.

Last edited by kazelee (2008 November 03, 3:23 pm)

alyks Member
From: Arizona Registered: 2008-05-31 Posts: 914 Website

QuackingShoe wrote:

I think Kanji look their best scribbled. There's a charm to it wink

I don't know what it is about scribbled kanji, but they're quite pleasing to write. Have a hell of a time reading them, though.

liveone New member
From: japan Registered: 2008-10-26 Posts: 6

My original post has generated quite a reaction. I asked my question mainly in relation to RTKII when you are trying to learn the Japanese reading of the kanji. At this stage I believe that typing (using hiragana/romaji phonetics) and then being able to corrrectly select the kanji with the desired meaning from a lookup table is a more effective way of learning than continuing to write kanji.

So far as initially associating an English meaning with a kanji is concerned I think writing the kanji probably serves as an effective means of reinforcement. That said however, alternatives to writing are very new and I do not know of any research which has compared modern computer based writing methods with the traditional pen, pencil or brush.

bodhisamaya Guest

I rarely practice writing kanji but have no trouble when I need to write one.  When I learn a new kanji I imagine the stroke order in my mind.  I like to surprise Japanese tourists by writing their names out.  Friends also ask me for emotion kanjis often.  Practicing on a Japanese keyboard was more important to me but not practicing the hand-written hasn't seem to prevent me doing so when needed as a result of RTK.

wccrawford Member
From: FL US Registered: 2008-03-28 Posts: 1551

alyks wrote:

I don't know what it is about scribbled kanji, but they're quite pleasing to write. Have a hell of a time reading them, though.

I hadn't thought about it, but I really enjoy writing kanji.  Somehow it's more like you're making something than writing.  Of course, maybe I just haven't done it enough.  smile

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