kfmfe04
Member
From: 台北
Registered: 2007-10-21
Posts: 487
I've recently gone into ZOMBIE MODE typing in KiC the Reference Book into an SRS: I'll get to the workbooks later.
Is there anyone out there who has done the Reference Book already or is looking to do it and is willing to split up the work?
I've turned into a Zombie typing in, for example:
Number|Japanese|Reading|English|Chapter
361|論争|ろんそう|argument, controversy: cv. argue, dispute|19
Chapter's not so important as it's easy to add that later, but any format would be fine .csv .xls etc... I've been ignoring the second entry when the same term shows up twice, but either way is fine.
Last edited by kfmfe04 (2008 October 16, 2:22 am)
kfmfe04
Member
From: 台北
Registered: 2007-10-21
Posts: 487
vosmiura wrote:
I have KiC but I'm not planning to use it until finishing 2001KO, which works in a similar way for 1110 kanji but is way easier to work through.
One note though: "361|論争|ろんそう|argument, controversy: cv. argue, dispute|19" is Kanji OUT OF Context 
. SRSing that without example sentences from the workbook seems boring & not very lucrative.
For me, with RTK1 out of the way, going through the KiC Reference is actually sufficient for picking up 95%+ of the vocabulary. The Workbook will simply nail down the meaning in context. My personal testing process: is input 1 lesson of KiC into an SRS and be able to read it and know the meaning, and then test in the Workbook to fill the gaps.
I know that I'm using KiC just as a dictionary of common words, but IMHO, the patterns/context is much more useful for grammar, and somewhat less so for vocabulary (unless it's for abstract words or words with similar meanings - but if I'm lucky, those will be covered in the workbook). I think WITHOUT RtK, doing KiC in context would be more effective. With RtK, I have an anchor, which is one of the main points of doing vocabulary in context.
But everyone has a different way of going about this...
Thora
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2007-02-23
Posts: 1691
kfmfe04 wrote:
I know that I'm using KiC just as a dictionary of common words, but IMHO, the patterns/context is much more useful for grammar, and somewhat less so for vocabulary [...]
I think WITHOUT RtK, doing KiC in context would be more effective. With RtK, I have an anchor, which is one of the main points of doing vocabulary in context.
I'm a big fan of KIC (and other books from the Inter-University Center.)
If you're going the SRS route, you might want to consider entering the vocabulary in phrases (not necessarily the full sentences). The purpose of the "in context", in my view, is not really about grammar or a memory anchor. It's more about familiarization with common expressions/word pairings (noun verb, for example), synomyms, antonyms and how the meanings might differ from direct English translations.
The workbooks provide several brief phrases to highlight these important aspects of vocabulary learning (in addition to the longer sentences). It wouldn't take much more effort to input these, but would give you the added bonus of a deeper understanding of the words and how they're used. Kill 2 birds... (Note: the vocabulary marked less common are not covered in the workbooks).
And you could save time by omitting kanji and chapter references. I doubt you'll need them and you could easily use the index if required. Using phrases (in addition to your RTK knowledge) might allow you to skip the English as well. Good luck
kfmfe04
Member
From: 台北
Registered: 2007-10-21
Posts: 487
Hi Thora,
Thank you for your suggestions. If the Workbooks were comprehensive and had every term in some phrase, I would go for your suggestion, right now!
I agree with your assessment of KiC. At first, it looked very intimidating with the number of vocabulary - the reference book is basically a dictionary! But I feel that every word in the reference book is important, in the sense that, if you asked a Japanese native, a good student or not, he/she will know how to read every single word and basically know their basic meaning/usage.
I want to be able to read each one and know at least one meaning for each term.
In "Anki terms", it comes down to Production vs Recognition. For now, recognition of all vocabulary in the KiC Reference is more important to me than production of some. I also intend to do the Workbook concurrently, but I haven't determined whether it's worth putting the Workbook into a SRS or not. I can Zombie-entry the Reference Book; if I have to filter the Workbook for phrases, that will take more time.
I know there are others on this board who have actually entered the Workbook into a SRS. Could some of you share with us what kind of cards you are generating? Is it Japanese (no furigana) on one side and the reading + English on the other? What is the intention of putting this information into a SRS? I like SRS and am open to some suggestions, but I need to understand what I am trying to accomplish in the SRS before going into Zombie-mode...
And Thora, you mentioned other books from Inter-University Center - could you tell me which ones in particular you find useful? Thank you!
Thora
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2007-02-23
Posts: 1691
Yeah, I also liked that KIC offers a kanji order and vocabulary selected to be useful for adult learners. The sheer volume was a bit daunting, however, so I elected to focus on the more common vocab first as a way to complete both workbooks more quickly and hopefully start putting it to use. One option is to use the workbooks for the common vocab and create a vocab list only for the ones marked less common (if you're keen to learn them now). I guess I really believe reviewing the vocab context is a key benefit of KIC and will make it a bit more interesting.
As for SRSing the workbooks, I suppose it depends on language level, but I get more value from learning material first and selectively inputting it than from zombie-entering an entire book. (fyi I used KIC to relearn kanji and readings - I was already OK with the sentence grammar and vocab). The extra time up front often means less time reviewing. Also, the workbooks repeat the vocabulary so there is a bit of a built in SRS. You might consider entering only the ones you get wrong or find interesting. (Or, use the poor man's SRS: just mark in the margin the ones you get wrong and review only those ones until you can mark them as learned).
As for cards, I use a Japanese phrase as prompt, and the reading of the word I'm trying to memorize as answer. I don't see any reason to generate the entire sentence in hiragana (takes time to create and read.) If you're able to understand the KIC sentences, I would also avoid English translation.
Of course everyone has their own goals and methods. But in general, I wonder if some fear of incompleteness might get some of us stuck in potentially eternal SRS land. If you're at an intermediate level, I recommend pushing forward with reading and you'll find the useful vocabulary will just keep reappearing.
Some of the other KIC threads might offer some alternative suggestions. cheers
Last edited by Thora (2008 October 18, 1:49 am)
Thora
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2007-02-23
Posts: 1691
Update: I received a nice reply from IUC (the Inter University Center for Japanese Language Studies in Yokohama). While their Kanji in Context software has been developed and used at the school for a few years, it is not yet available for purchase. They do plan to start selling it soon (近いうちに), however, and will post a notice on their website when it is available. They appreciate our interest and patience and hope that we'll check back again.
