Sort By Number of Fails?

Index » RtK Volume 1

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kfmfe04 Member
From: 台北 Registered: 2007-10-21 Posts: 487

Hi,

Is there any way to Sort All RTK1 By Number of Fails, descending?
This would be useful for focusing re-study for difficult Kanji.

Thanks in advance.

Nukemarine Member
From: 神奈川 Registered: 2007-07-15 Posts: 2347

On the Review tab page, there's a link called "detailed list". On the detailed list, click on "failed" column header twice.

http://kanji.koohii.com/status/full-kan … ilurecount

kfmfe04 Member
From: 台北 Registered: 2007-10-21 Posts: 487

Excellent.  Just what I was looking for.
Thank you.

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bobince New member
Registered: 2008-08-06 Posts: 5

It would be interesting to be able to sort on *everyone*'s aggregated fails - let's see which kanji really are difficult!

Samsara Member
From: USA Registered: 2008-06-30 Posts: 33

bobince wrote:

It would be interesting to be able to sort on *everyone*'s aggregated fails - let's see which kanji really are difficult!

We could just start a post for most failed kanji.

Right now I have a tie between: 切, 帝, 豪, 携, 覧.

覧 is now one of the easiest ones for me, but I initially had a lot of trouble with the positioning of the different primitives.

gruikya Member
From: France Registered: 2008-07-04 Posts: 10

That's a nice idea ! My most failed kanji are :

851     臓     entrails       4  (I keep mistaking it for intestines)
864     勧     persuade    4
611     憩     recess        3
628     愉     pleasure     3
787     訟     sue            3
823     恥     shame       3
929     数     number      3
1087     礼     salute/salutation     3

hknamida Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2007-08-16 Posts: 222 Website

Not counting the ones I fail because I get the keywords mixed up, I've had a lot of trouble with these: 鯵 楢 襖 薩 彙

ファブリス Administrator
From: Belgium Registered: 2006-06-14 Posts: 4021 Website

bobince wrote:

It would be interesting to be able to sort on *everyone*'s aggregated fails - let's see which kanji really are difficult!

Here is the 50 most failed kanji accross all users. Kanji,framenum,keyword,SUM pass,SUM fail, ratio pass/fail

嘱   1954    entrust 1917    1044    1,8362
憾    631    remorse 6082    3307    1,8391
薦   2000    recommend   1867    1007    1,854
顕   1789    appear  2137    1142    1,8713
耗   1914    decrease    1973    1037    1,9026
唆    766    tempt   5208    2726    1,9105
褒    998    praise  4212    2191    1,9224
撤    760    remove  5138    2649    1,9396
粛   1733    solemn  2344    1194    1,9631
随   1298    follow  3314    1676    1,9773
勤   1577    diligence   2481    1228    2,0204
恭   1803    respect 2170    1063    2,0414
微    889    delicate    4759    2313    2,0575
越    387    surpass 7502    3614    2,0758
泰   1570    peaceful    2558    1216    2,1036
叙   1660    confer  2396    1136    2,1092
誘    916    entice  4542    2129    2,1334
懸   1394    suspend 2944    1376    2,1395
慶   2001    jubilation  1918    894 2,1454
塑   1960    model   1999    928 2,1541
縫   1563    sew 2659    1227    2,1671
徳    885    benevolence 4726    2164    2,1839
峰   1562    summit  2685    1226    2,19
堕   1314    degenerate  3099    1412    2,1948
託   1917    consign 1909    863 2,2121
収   1510    income  2820    1272    2,217
献   1615    offering    2405    1083    2,2207
勧    864    persuade    4552    2048    2,2227
既   1481    previously  2741    1225    2,2376
傑    999    greatness   4246    1889    2,2478
惜   1187    pity    3576    1589    2,2505
釈   1908    explanation/interpretation  2101    933 2,2519
庸   1182    commonplace/comfortable 3478    1542    2,2555
愁    901    distress    4758    2109    2,256
郭   1842    enclosure   2141    946 2,2632
謹   1576    discreet    2487    1098    2,265
逓   1858    parcel post 2108    927 2,274
敷   1883    spread  2073    910 2,278
挿   1116    insert  3861    1693    2,2806
邸   1841    residence   2188    957 2,2863
得    876    gain    4620    2019    2,2883
励    866    encourage   4773    2067    2,3091
擁   1387    hug 3007    1301    2,3113
修   1722    discipline  2316    1002    2,3114
穏   1147    calm    3688    1592    2,3166
窮   1326    hard up 3065    1321    2,3202
統   1347    overall 3077    1322    2,3275
朗   1469    melodious   2817    1210    2,3281
錯   1185    confused    3549    1521    2,3333
把   1752    grasp   2320    994 2,334

QuackingShoe Member
From: USA Registered: 2008-04-19 Posts: 721

Hey, so I'm not the only one who totally hates entrust.

Actually, that is pretty interesting, because I think I've failed a good deal of those as well. Interesting commonalities.

Reply #10 - 2008 October 11, 2:01 pm
nickoakden Member
From: England Registered: 2008-08-06 Posts: 42 Website

You're nice to us.

Reply #11 - 2008 October 12, 2:57 am
skinnyneo Member
Registered: 2007-03-07 Posts: 148

Taking a quick look it looks like maybe "tempt" is number one. (anybody see one with more missed?)  Man I know that I have contributed to that one.  I wonder how many of those are because it was confused with beckon.

Currently I look like this:
1035      善      virtuous     
1163     群     flock    
1310     陛     highness    
300     冗     superfluous    
306     坑     pit    
1027     匁     monme    

I hate superfluous cuz I can't ever remember if its a top hat or a crown!  Same with pit.  I think Ive finally got virtuous on the ropes tho!

Last edited by skinnyneo (2008 October 12, 3:02 am)

Reply #12 - 2008 October 12, 3:19 am
Nukemarine Member
From: 神奈川 Registered: 2007-07-15 Posts: 2347

Fabrice, two questions

1. Was that table only from RTK1 list?
2. How many users have 1800+ cards in stack 5 or higher?

Reply #13 - 2008 October 12, 5:37 am
Raichu Member
From: Australia Registered: 2005-10-27 Posts: 249 Website

ファブリス wrote:

Here is the 50 most failed kanji accross all users.

Yep, I certainly have trouble with most of those.

I think a common feature that they have is that their keyword is synonymous with other keywords, making them harder to distinguish. E.g.,

把 grasp vs 握 grip
憾 remorse vs 悔 repent
耗 decrease vs 減 dwindle
越 surpass vs 超 transcend
塑 model vs 型 mould
峰 summit vs 頂 place on the head
錯 confused vs 妄 delusion

Reply #14 - 2008 October 12, 6:37 am
ファブリス Administrator
From: Belgium Registered: 2006-06-14 Posts: 4021 Website

@Nukemarine

1. Yes, sorry I forgot to mention that the list was actually all RtK3 kanji (that is, the top 50 most failed). The results ABOVE are RtK1 kanji alone. Here's the results accross ALL kanji, it's all RtK3 :

槃   2522    enjoyment   97  80  1,2125
肴   2896    entreat 60  49  1,2245
赳   2936    bold    69  55  1,2545
逞   2971    tough   84  65  1,2923
剪   2941    pruning 77  59  1,3051
躊   2996    hesitate    70  53  1,3208
肇   2893    founding    69  52  1,3269
焔   2546    flames  97  73  1,3288
饅   2998    bean jam    63  47  1,3404
浩   2311    abounding   145 108 1,3426
聚   2939    crowd   95  70  1,3571
虔   2868    reserved    71  51  1,3922
鋤   2756    plow    74  53  1,3962
聘   2678    summons 101 72  1,4028
悉   2430    without exception   120 85  1,4118
蔑   2390    revile  151 106 1,4245
瞥   2927    glimpse 70  49  1,4286
瑞   2563    fortunate   142 99  1,4343
瑳   2559    burnish 103 71  1,4507
嚢   2883    cyst    93  64  1,4531
禦   2597    fend off    102 70  1,4571
黎   2935    tenebrous   79  54  1,463
祢   2601    ancestral shrine    101 69  1,4638
頓   2788    immediate   104 71  1,4648
譬   2728    parable 85  58  1,4655
鑓   2767    javelin 94  64  1,4688
錐   2760    awl 90  61  1,4754
鮒   2825    crucian 65  44  1,4773
穆   2612    obeisant    102 69  1,4783
欣   2888    elation 77  52  1,4808
鄭   2425    courtesy    126 85  1,4824
詑   2718    prevarication   79  53  1,4906
敦   2931    empathetic  79  53  1,4906
翫   2899    fiddle with 82  55  1,4909
簸   2647    winnow  88  59  1,4915
讃   2711    compliment  87  58  1,5
甦   2940    resucitate  75  50  1,5
稀   2611    sparse  125 83  1,506
樗   2526    plotosid    101 67  1,5075
丞   2919    helping hand    101 67  1,5075
鹸   2867    lye 83  55  1,5091
晋   2436    progress    121 80  1,5125
榛   2475    hazel   129 85  1,5176
畢   2570    lastly  126 83  1,5181
毅   2889    stalwart    76  50  1,52
斡   2781    auspices    76  50  1,52
葵   2391    hollyhock   140 92  1,5217
楢   2493    Japanese oak    102 67  1,5224
誼   2719    familiarity 96  63  1,5238
潰   2319    defile  154 101 1,5248

Far less users are doing RtK3. Perhaps the lower pass rate is due to spending less time on getting the stories right, or maybe some users are trying to push through without a story altogether?

PS: My thoughts based on both RtK1 and RtK3 results is that the keywords are the more difficult ones, not just in themselves but also because those are similar to previously learned keywords. The latter situation is especially true for RtK3 with already 2042 keywords previously learned.

2. Out of 2514 users who have at least one flashcard in box 5 or higher, 175 users have 1800+ cards in box 5 or higher, 480 users have 1000+ flashcards in box 5 or higher, 812 users have 500+ flashcards in box 5 or higher. It seems linear but I'm not seeing it as a graph. I'm not very good at SQL querries though. Perhaps the results would be more relevant by doing a ratio of the users total of cards in box 5 and higher over the user's total of flashcards. That would show how many users use the Leitner system fully, regardless of how far they got into RtK. I don't know how to run two COUNT's in a query already using a GROUP BY clause on the users though. If somebody knows how to write more advanced queries by all means, post them and I can try them out.

Reply #15 - 2008 October 12, 8:52 am
kfmfe04 Member
From: 台北 Registered: 2007-10-21 Posts: 487

The trick is to build a subquery. 

For example, say you have two queries:

SELECT a, COUNT(*)
FROM tbl
GROUP BY a;

SELECT COUNT(*)
FROM tbl;

You may combine them into one query if you wanted to see percentages:

SELECT a,
  COUNT(*) /
  (
  SELECT COUNT(*)
  FROM tbl
  ) AS pct
FROM tbl
GROUP BY a;

For simplicity, I have omitted WHERE statements, but you can stick those in to count only the cards that you care about.  The syntax above works with MySQL.

Also, if the query is too complex to do it in one shot, you can always write a small stored procedure to do the calculation.  If this isn't clear enough for you to figure it out, post your individual queries (or e-mail them to me) and I'll piece it together for you. 

Good luck!

Last edited by kfmfe04 (2008 October 12, 8:55 am)

Reply #16 - 2008 October 12, 1:26 pm
Samsara Member
From: USA Registered: 2008-06-30 Posts: 33

None of the most missed kanji (entrust, remorse, etc) really lend themselves to visuals. They're all primarily mental actions or feelings.

Reply #17 - 2008 October 12, 5:29 pm
Nukemarine Member
From: 神奈川 Registered: 2007-07-15 Posts: 2347

Fabrice, something tells me there's a thesis paper hidden in all that data you collected via RevTK.

Interesting results all around. I agree less visual kanji makes for harder retention. Also its interesting only 7% of the users have 1800 cards (very rough estimate to say 90% of rtk) in stack 5 or higher. I do think this points out that some users do RTK and RevTK only up until they "finish" book 1 (put in all stories).

I'm not a statician though. So I won't be looking to deep into this.

Reply #18 - 2008 October 13, 3:59 pm
kfmfe04 Member
From: 台北 Registered: 2007-10-21 Posts: 487

Samsara wrote:

None of the most missed kanji (entrust, remorse, etc) really lend themselves to visuals. They're all primarily mental actions or feelings.

I have noticed this, too, when going from the sub-1000's to the second half: there appear to be fewer abstract/hard words in the 1000-2000 range.  Correct me, RTK3 veterans, if I am wrong, but there seem to be even fewer fuzzy-words in the 2000-3000 range, but many more esoteric, but concrete keywords.

Reply #19 - 2008 October 13, 4:29 pm
hknamida Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2007-08-16 Posts: 222 Website

Nukemarine wrote:

I do think this points out that some users do RTK and RevTK only up until they "finish" book 1 (put in all stories).

Perhaps people tend to switch to an external srs when they start working on readings/vocabulary/sentences, to keep everything in the same place? That's what I did, but I don't know exactly how common it is.

Reply #20 - 2008 October 16, 6:32 am
bobince New member
Registered: 2008-08-06 Posts: 5

Thanks Fabrice! Groan - I recognise a lot of that list from my own perennial failures!

Surprised not to see more of the types-of-tree though, I can never remember which is which!

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