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i was wondering how you study kanji do you write the kanji first then put them into your srs or do you put them into your srs first. or do you put them into you srs first then write while your studying the kanji in your srs?
Back when I used Heisig's book and this site to study kanji, I wrote them once before adding them to my deck. Since I switched to Anki, however, I have been using the sample deck of RtK 1+3 kanji, so they're all in the deck, already. The "first" time I see them, I write them and make stories or mnemonics for them. For "RtK 4" kanji (i.e. kanji not in Heisig's books, such as 鬱) and crazy hanzi such as Biang(sp?), I still write them before adding them.
Last edited by hknamida (2008 September 04, 2:46 am)
Write down the Kanji physically on paper about 3-5 times. Write down the story/mnemonic in Notepad, if I have trouble thinking up a story, I use this site to get some ideas, but I mostly write my own stories.
After that, I copy-paste the stories from the Notepad to the sample deck in Anki. Do about 35-60 a day (used to do 70-90 until the atomic 240 review bomb hit x_x).
Since I finished RTK1 and am currently focused on JLPT, my kanji study is currently on hold. However, when I was still doing RTK I would generally go through a chapter at a time making up stories and referencing RevTK when my imagination failed me. While doing this I wouldn't do any writing of the stories or the kanji. Several hours later I would quiz the kanji from the chapter in order using KanjiGym, repeating the failed set until it was empty. Then I would add the chapter to RevTK and quiz the new cards the next day along with the expired cards and the failed deck (writing the kanji on paper to answer the cards). I would review the stories for any cards remaining in the failed deck and leave them to quiz the next day.
Doing it this way is pretty low effort (no endless writing of the kanji or messing with paper flashcards for awhile) and let me do about 150-200 characters per day for the last half of the book or so with 90% retention. Many people seem to write their stories in notebooks or draw pictures etc, but I've never really seen a need for it. If you forget the story for a kanji so completely that you need to reference it, it wasn't a good story in the first place and you should just make up another one.
I've chosen a method of study which I apply to any new information not just kanji. I've read lots and lots of research on memory and tried everything, then kept what works best for me.
First of all I'll read through my new kanji for the day in RTK (50 kanji), creating stories or chained images vivdly in my mind. That means picturing the things the elements describe, closing my eyes and really imagining them, all together in a linked image. I probably spend ~30 seconds on each one at this point, but when you first start it takes longer to get good vivid images.
Now I take a ten minute break from the learning and do something totally different (like water my tomatoes)
Then I'll read through the list again, writing out each kanji once to get a feel for the balance of the image, again calling up that visual image holding it in my imagination for a while, being careful to make sure the meaning is engrained with the image as obviously as possible. I do this for all the kanji in the list.
Another ten minute break
Then I go through a third time, only looking at the keyword and trying to call up that image again. If I get it a bit wrong, or get primitives in the wrong places, this is my chance to tweak the image.
Once I've done the three-step process I leave it a few hours before I use Anki to test the new cards (after doing my reviews). I use the RTK 1+3 deck that comes installed. The rest of the process is left to Anki. Oh, also I have chosen intial sheduling times of: 0 & 1 = 10 mins, 2 = 13-37 hours, 3 = 2-6 days, 4 = 6-13 days.
The three step process I use at the beginning is based on some classic art of memory ideas like visual chaining, but the most important part of this is the triple repetition in quick succession, with ten minute breaks. There has been research by cambridge neuroscientists showing that learning the same things 3 times in a row with a ten minute break helps longer term retention. Then I trust the intervals to the SRS algorithym.
I never use stories like the ones people write on this site unless the primitives and the kanji suggest an easy rhyme or a well known phrase.
Anyone interested in the spaced learning research needs an athens account to access the actual paper, but can read a summary at wikipedia (search 'spaced learning') or at Monkseaton College website (a school where they're putting it into practise)
edit: missed out a main point!
Last edited by Blahah (2008 September 08, 2:57 am)
I certainly make less of an effort than the people above, but it's working for me...
I simply go through Heisig, learning as many as I feel like. Let's say I'm on kanji 350. So I open the book, go to 350 and check the keyword, the kanji, read Heisigs story. Unless it's really bad or doesn't make sense to me, I use his story. I spend about 20 seconds making an image in my mind with the story elements. Then I go to the next kanji, do the same thing. When I'm tired of doing this (usually about 20 kanji) I add them on this site. I then wait about 10 hours (usually I just wait until next morning) and then I review them here for the first time. I usually get 85% or more correct. Then I simply repeat that. I only write kanji out during my reviews to make sure I didn't write anything wrong. I NEVER train by writing kanji several times since I know from experience and what Heisig himself says that it's not worth it.
When I actually do fail kanji (which is remarkably seldom thanks to this awesome technique and site) I spend more time on them. I check the best stories on this site looking for a good one, I spend more time making a vivid good image etc. I don't consider them "Learned" until I know the story is stuck.
Compared with everyone else here, I'm pretty primitive.
I bought a set of the Heisig "Kanji Study Cards" (mainly because my calligraphy is so awful, it hurt to look at my homemade cards). I use them for learning and review.
As I got further and further into RtK1 -- into the part where you have to do your own stories -- I'd do about 25 to 30 frames at a time, breaking at a section or chapter break or stretching out trying to make it to the next round number.
I'd first go through and pencil my stories into the frames. When my brain got filled up, I'd stop and work my way backwards through the new frames, looking only at the keyword and drawing the kanji on my desk with my finger when I felt I needed to.
Finally, I'd put the book away, pull out the cards for the frames I'd learned, and go through them one at a time, looking at the keywords and remembering the stories I'd made up as I mentally reconstructed the kanji. I'd draw on the desktop again if I needed to. If I missed a card, I'd stick it a few cards back so it would come up again quickly, and I'd make sure I did that no less than three times.
I'd have two decks on my desk: new kanji (intensive review) and old kanji (review as often as possible).
Now that I've finished the book and am immersed in reviewing, I pull out 100 study cards at a time and go through them keyword-to-kanji and then kanji-to-keyword. The ones that I miss get slipped back into the bunch so that they come up again. Again, three times. Last night I was doing the 800 series, and I had several that just wouldn't come, and they wound up in a little mini-deck by themselves that I just went over and over until the recognition was instinctive.
Yup: I'm a dinosaur.
I sometimes use Kanji Gold for a change, and for vocabulary, I use Flash Card Manager by Vendant Software.
Kyorei
Well...
It *is* an SRS. Sort of. It's just manually driven. As I go along, I know what kanji aren't working for me, so I can woodshed them more than others. (As in: taking them out to the woodshed and whaling on them for a time. Ever wonder how those speed metal guitarists get so fast? Same method.)
I started with the kanji study cards and continued with them because I'd built up a method that suited me and some momentum to carry me forward. If I'd stopped to learn a new system or had to take time to get a program and input everything into it, I would probably have gotten preoccupied with the interface and the device I was running it on and wouldn't have finished RtK1.
Cards are easy, portable, require no Internet connection or batteries, and the Heisig cards offer vocabulary, On and Kun readings, and example words and endings. It's all there. I can grab a stack and review it when I'm waiting for a doctor's appointment...or (more challenging) while watching TV. And I always know where I am in the review process.
If a software system is what floats your boat, though, by all means, use it! The important thing is finishing. Not what method you use.
Kyorei
After beeing very confortable with anki for some time, I have the impression that you are carrying your boat on your back, not floating.
But, hey, way to go!
A stack of 2000-3000 index cards is NOT portable ![]()

