You want to learn Japanese but you won't even spend like $20 on a book? While you can use this site without having the RTK1 book, it was never meant to be used that way and it's not really fair to Heisig is it? If you aren't going to buy the book anyway, why not go all the way and just download a pirated pdf from the net? Don't you like the feel of an actual real book in your hand?

What you get in the first book that you can't see on this site is the explanations of the primitives and how they change with position etc, it also tells you how to use the book and study correctly. For RTK 2 and 3, you need the books because the Japanese readings aren't on this site.

KO stands for Kanji Odyssey, which is a series of books for studying kanji.

The second book is basically to teach you the on-yomi readings for the kanji in book 1. It does this by grouping together kanji with the same readings and teaching you to identify certain "signal primitives", which signal the reading of the kanji. It lists the kanji, the reading, and then has a kanji compound word that uses the reading. Heisig specifically states that he wants you to review using cards with the compound word displayed, and you then produce the reading and meaning.

The third book introduces new kanji with keywords up to a total of 3000 I believe it was, and then in the second half proceeds to give you the on-yomi readings for these new kanji in the same fashion as in book 2. I haven't completed book 1 yet, so I can't speak for the values of books 2-3, but I think many people just go for the keywords in book 1+3, to learn 3000 kanji, and then use sentences etc to learn the readings of those kanji.

Being able to finish the book and read the last page is a reward unto itself, worth way more than the 20-30$ price tag.

You know, the thought crossed my mind if it was possible to take the course without the book, but it is better to have the book.  Why? Because then you could learn anywhere you take the book with you.  Otherwise, you have to be at a computer and logged on.  And, you do not get any of Heisig's original thoughts. 

Once you get to section 3 in the book, you will not have Heisig's keywords. You have to rely on other's thoughts and tweeks which work for them and not necessarily you.  Then you will be out of the loop because everyone is learning off a source you do not have access to. You have to guess at what everyone is talking about. Also, the book has an index that is helpful for looking stuff up and reviewing.  This book should be used as a reference long after all the Kanji are learned. 

One last thing. What if you got to meet Heisig.  Would you tell him you learned his method without buying his book? That you figured out a loop and cheating him out of any potential money?  What if he asked you "I am working on a 5th addition. What changes in the book do you think I should make to help students out?" 

Don't get me wrong. This website is the best companion to the book. I dont even have flash cards because of it. I do take notes in a notebook as I learn and keep a running list on a word document. This website is great for REVIEW and to ask questions NOT addressed in the book. 

Just buy the book and join the club.

I forgot to mention this. Even if you are not new to Kanji, the book is set up to learn in a very specific way. The whole point is to go in order until you get to the end.  Regardless of what you may already know, you should start from the beginning and learn the Heisig method.  That is the one downside.  You have to learn all 2042 Kanji first, before you know how to use them.

Last edited by Wisher (2008 August 30, 4:13 pm)

I win! Yay! But it was more a response to the thread itself instead of what that other guy said. I think this site is cool for normal RTKers.

bodhisamaya wrote:

You ABSOLUTELY do not need the book.  I would even say you can't use the book effectively without this sight.   I checked out RTK at the library but would never have gotten past #600 without this sight.   I can't imagine anyone would have and gotten good memorable stories without the inspiration of how other people have tackled each kanji and probably less than 10% would have finished all 2042.  Authors do not write books for money.  They write books for ego.  If you feel bad about not buying the book, send Heisig a $2 check.  That is most likely more than his share from each book sold anyways.  kanjikoohii has made everyone involved in the process of RTK plenty of money.  I would have never bought book two if it weren't for this sight.  It was a legitimate question.  It is a shame some have attacked you for it.

You make it sound like the hundreds, if not thousands of students that Heisig has gotten feedback from, from just reading his books, do not exsist.  According to you, how could anyone learn from the book alone without the benifit of this website?  How long has this website been around anyway? Certainly not since 1977 when the first book was published. 

You can play baseball with a stick, not a bat, and a tennis ball.  You could eat soup with a fork if you really try.  Yes, you could learn the Kanji from this site alone, but you will work twice as hard and less efficiently then with both.

And for the record, I bought the books 1 & 2 BEFORE I even knew this site exsited.

This might be the start of another topic, but it is related to the thread.

I will agree that this website is the best thing to ever happen to the books.

Here are some questions:
What does Heisig think about the website?
Does he ever comment in it?
Is he a member here?
Why has he not mentioned the website in his latest edition?
Would he mention it?
How would he answer the original question, "Do I honestly NEED the book?"

Keep in mind that I am new here and dont know if these questions have already been answered.

And thank you Alkys for you comments.  BTW, I have checked out your website and think it is a great idea.  I was actually thinking of doing something similar. My first was the kanji for Transport:  Luke and Ben-Kenobi needed a TRANSPORT to Alderon.  They have a MEETING with Han Solo. Things get ruff in the cantina and an Arm (FLESH) gets cut off with a Light Sabre. (SWORD)

Last edited by Wisher (2008 August 30, 7:43 pm)

ZeRinku in order to use just this site to master kanji, you would have to follow an alternative method to Heisigs. Without the stories ad descriptions for the primitives, the entire process is without its foundation. It's not a big expense, and for your $25/?15 you will have a written record of your enormous achievement once you've finished. This site is invaluable, but it doesn't replace the books. It is designed and functions perfectly as an accompaniment to the book. That's the tried and tested method.

The first third of the book is a great way to start Kanji Study.  You understand the reasoning behind this study form, get some great examples and a good grasp on the method behind RtK.

Once Heisig leaves the stories out in the second portion of the book, it's almost pointless to continue following, though he has an important interjection every so often.

The site was born out of the book after all, so if you feel you've been educated with this approach, it's worth 20 dollars just to give Heisig the credit he deserves, and you have the option of handing the book down to someone once you're finished with it.

Personally I think that if you're going to spend money on learning japanese, there are way better books to spend your money on, mainly Minna no Nihongo. However, if you feel you want to recognize kanji better, this is easily worth the 20 dollars.

esgrove wrote:

When I got past the halfway point, my girlfriend said she wanted to try it, so I ripped the book in half (...)

That cracked me up, haha. Who knew the bad binding from RtK 5th edition, first run, had some good sides

EDIT: Oh, that gave me an idea. See, if you buy the book, you can rip it up or even burn it slowly during the cold winter months, when you get frustrated by the super-multi-punch-primitive-combos-of-hell!

smujohnson wrote:

Yes, you need the book.  Why?  The stroke order.  Trust me on this, I used to think the same thing.  However, the stroke order... if you use this site's flashcards, the best way to test yourself is to write the kanji "answer" on paper.  And you MUST learn the proper stroke order.  If you don't feel like learning the stroke order the proper way and your own way... you will be doomed.  If there was no stroke order in RTK1, I would agree with you, however.  But trust me, the stroke order is very important.

Stroke order is overrated. It's important to learn the basic system, for example how to write 口 (if you write it wrong you won't be able to count strokes) but as for knowing the correct stroke order of individual kanji: Not needed. Most japanese don't, so why should we?

Ask a japanese to write 左 then 右 and look if they wrote the above primite "by ones side" the same way both times. I bet most of them will, which is not correct.