liosama
Member
From: sydney
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 896
Ok so 吾'm entering 中 my 2nd semester of Japanese 学 where we learn roughly 90 kanji
(family, tribe, father, younger brother, enter, go out (吾 dont know heisigs keyword for that), taberu, nomu etc)
Thing is im 只 at ~600 右 now, so here is my 案. Go to the actual keyword of the kanji 吾 案 to learn, then go 裏 to the root of it and get 皆 the primitives Heisig teaches 中 lessons 先 (吾.e dollar sign for younger brother) then learn it as if 吾 was learning Heisig but skip 皆 the kanji 中 between.
This is working really fine and 吾'm thinking of (when 吾 have the 時 to) to compile a mini blog/resource "Get started on 早 kanji, RTK 式" Using this 'go to keyword and fetch 裏 root primitives method'.
吾'm not sure if these stories are working for me because 吾 already have some experience with Heisig (600 is decent enough experience for me 
), OR because its just the method itself kicking 中. So 吾'm not sure what a 了 beginners take on this would be. 吾 started my semester 1 of Japanese at university with 只 ~30 kanji (RTK), so 吾 ended up rote learning 金(which 吾 would endorse 
) and some others.
But 吾'd like to hear your thoughts
iSoron
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 490
It may work, but, sooner or later, you're going to use all the kanji from the first the book (with very few exceptions), so I don't quite see the point. Additionally, I think spotting the kanji you have already studied in real life situations is way more motivating than having to stop every 30 seconds to write down some unknown characters for latter studies.
Side note: I don't think associating 吾 with "I", 早 with "early" and 中 with "in" is a good idea. I would rather associate them with their real readings and meanings. Keyword to kanji is fine, but kanji to keyword seems like a bit of a stretch. If you want more exposure to kanji, you should read more real Japanese. 
Last edited by iSoron (2008 August 01, 10:21 am)
The_Dude
Member
From: Florida
Registered: 2008-07-22
Posts: 27
In response to iSoron's side note, I agree. Not only is kanji to English keyword relatively useless, but you wouldn't even be using them in the correct context.
For instance, I don't think that using 右 for "right now" is correct. I doubt that phrase exists in Japanese; it would more likely be something along the lines of "as of now." 右 generally means the right side of something, doesn't it? But then again, I don't speak Japanese, so I have no clue what I'm talking about...
Raichu
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 249
Website
In my kanji group I wrote an exercise where people had to fill in the gaps in an English story with kanji whose Heisig keywords completed the story. I showed it to a Chinese girl I was working with. She laughed and said, "you don't use that kanji like that."
Reading your first post was terribly difficult for the same reason. When I see the kanji, I perceive its meaning, not its keyword. A keyword (like "right", "complete") can have multiple meanings in English, but usually only one meaning matches the kanji. So when you use "right" with a different meaning, it just doesn't make sense.
Now if you wish to translate your post into English (or Japanese, Italian or Greek), I might have a hope of understanding it.
liosama
Member
From: sydney
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 896
omg sorry, the stupid kanjilish script was on, so when i did preview it converted all the keywords into heisig. But if you were reading my post you'd realise that it had nothing to do with what i was saying anyway . I know very well kanji doesn't work like that, its just for kanji-> keyword practice. ANYWAY, that is way beside the point.
Like i said, im at 600 now with heisig, But "族 is at 1222 食 is at 1472. So i figured i may as well learn these RTK way, but there's no way in hell i'll be able to get to 1472 the proper way from 600. so for the TIME BEING, i look at 1222, I already know direction on the left, recline on the top, but he seems to call them banner, so i'll learn that as banner, and the thing next to those is is a dart.
So i'm essentially just RTKing but skipping all the kanji i wont be using for the semester, so it got me thinking of compiling a mini book for beginners who don't want to learn 'useless' kanji but want to start out with the grade 1 kanji etc. So this can be a more 'useful' learning direction to beginners, by squishing in grade 1 kanji.
And all that being said, i don't think it would have been that hard to go through my post anyway 
there were only like 10 keywords all up changed.
The_Dude
Member
From: Florida
Registered: 2008-07-22
Posts: 27
Now it makes much more sense. I understood your post...ish... but I wasn't entirely sure where the random kanji fit into your master plan. Now that I know they aren't at all related, I feel marginally better about my intelligence. I'm pretty sure someone on these boards has already created a level-based, RtK-style kanji list. Maybe someone else will know where to find it.
Edit: Even under your circumstance, why skip the kanji? Why not just learn them in Heisig's order, and come across those kanji you need for school when you come across them? You will be learning them all anyways. And It's only a ~400 frame count difference, which can be done in a very short while.
Last edited by The_Dude (2008 August 01, 7:43 pm)
mystes
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2008-04-08
Posts: 99
I'm not sure there really is any particularly good order to learn kanji in. In particular, the grade levels aren't really that great, so I wouldn't recommend reorganizing the whole thing in that fashion. On the other hand, the order that you need to know them for your class will only be useful for you. Hence, I don't see the point in reorganizing the book. The only thing would be helpful is some sort of computer program that reorganizes things based on what kanji you need to learn sooner, and that is probably not worth the effort.
woelpad
Member
From: Chiba
Registered: 2006-11-07
Posts: 425
Note that once there is such a list, you (or I) can pump it into the Alter sequence script and continue to use this site for review (for a how-to, see here).
I'm just wondering whether you really are interested in learning them in grade order, or are simply looking for a temporary stopgap, mixing in the kanji that you need for your class and then continuing in Heisig order. If the latter, a fixed list is only of minimal value, and you'd be better off with a tool that allows you to change the order arbitrarily according to your own needs. Which for sure this script allows you to, if you don't mind loading it into a text editor from time to time to alter it. A more interactive way is still in the planning stage, and I can see people switching to Anki for just this reason. Raise your hands if you did.
Nukemarine
Member
From: 神奈川
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2347
mentat_kgs wrote:
90 kanji is soooo little to learn in a whole semester...
Remember though, he has to learn On yomi, Kun yomi and associated vocabulary all at once. That's not exactly so little if taken into account. In fact, it's made more difficult as it is not in the nice and organized method we use.
Last edited by Nukemarine (2008 August 04, 4:52 pm)
erlog
Member
From: Japan
Registered: 2007-01-25
Posts: 633
amalekited wrote:
Yeah, Nukemarine is right. It is entirely different -- you can't compare
Yes, you can compare. After doing RTK for a while, learning new kanji is surprisingly easy even if you have to learn associated vocabulary with it. It is a little bit slower, but doing RTK will make you quicker on the uptake than anyone else in your class who is not doing RTK.
Last edited by erlog (2008 August 04, 6:57 pm)
