If I fail a kanji a bunch of times...

Index » RtK Volume 1

  • 1
 
Reply #1 - 2008 July 30, 9:32 am
Wizard Member
From: Osaka Registered: 2008-06-13 Posts: 96

Eventually the story sticks. Is this bad? If it doesn't stick near enough first time does that mean I will forget it in the future? I presume I am eventually just memorising the stories.

Reply #2 - 2008 July 30, 10:51 am
pazustep Member
From: Brazil Registered: 2007-04-09 Posts: 30 Website

I don't think this is a bad thing. Failure is a nice motivation tool, and I've even tweaked my learning process to exploit this. I study more kanji than recommended, thus failing more, and getting a stronger motivation to remember them.

Reply #3 - 2008 July 30, 8:26 pm
skinnyneo Member
Registered: 2007-03-07 Posts: 148

Wizard wrote:

Eventually the story sticks. Is this bad? If it doesn't stick near enough first time does that mean I will forget it in the future? I presume I am eventually just memorising the stories.

I think it's perfectly okay to fail a kanji a bunch of times as it makes it stand out more as a kanji you need to focus on.  I am usually pretty hard on myself and fail lots of kanji that other people might say "ahh, it's just one stroke" or "ahhh well I just messed up the keyword but I got the kanji right for another one" and pass it.  To me though I think I think that you kinda fool youself into thinking you know the kanji better than you really do when you do that.  Sure it sucks to see a 60-70% retention rate even after 15,000 reviews but I think that building a solid foundation is the most important thing.  In the end really it's all for you (the sucesses AND the failures)!

Advertising (register and sign in to hide this)
JapanesePod101 Sponsor
 
Reply #4 - 2008 July 30, 11:09 pm
Wizard Member
From: Osaka Registered: 2008-06-13 Posts: 96

Hmm, so for example 唱 the story is people mouth wide open tongues waggling is a choir.

If I kept failing that kanji repeatedly, at first by completely forgetting the story, then by making mistakes with the story, until eventually I finally remember the story perfectly, is that bad?
Imagine the end result is I remember the story perfectly when I look at the kanji now, but it took a long time to get there.

If I chose a different kanji, and managed to remember it much more easily, say after failing it only once, is it essentially the same? From that point on will my retention for both kanji be the same?

Or will the fact the first kanji was really hard to remember at first actually affect me remembering it in the future?

If you understand what I am saying...

Last edited by Wizard (2008 July 30, 11:11 pm)

Reply #5 - 2008 July 31, 12:08 am
dat5h Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-07-15 Posts: 160 Website

Failing it is a great way for it to stick in your mind. I fail myself on kanji if I have a really tough time coming to it sometimes even if I end up getting it right. This is encouragement to go to that Fail Stack and look at it more frequently, telling my brain, "hey, you've seen this umpteen number of times ... picture the story ... blah blah". The more often you look at it, the better it'll stick. Having a kanji in the fail stack will force you to look at it at least once before you run into it in another review, so don't fear failure. It makes you stronger.

pazustep, I do the same thing. I feel that if I can put twice as many kanji in my head, I'll be more motivated to press onward, even if I fail due to my constantly checking that fail stack. I like this method. I've only taken a week to get 1/3 done which makes me feel great (albeit my brain hurts).

Reply #6 - 2008 July 31, 12:11 am
mentat_kgs Member
From: Brasil Registered: 2008-04-18 Posts: 1671 Website

Yo, I kinda understand you. I had the same problem with agression kanji. It would'nt stick with me. But now I cant imagine to forget it. Failing it so many times was not a waste.

Reply #7 - 2008 July 31, 2:10 am
Wizard Member
From: Osaka Registered: 2008-06-13 Posts: 96

Hmm, I guess I will have to wait and see. I know they stick eventually but I am not sure it isn't short term...

Reply #8 - 2008 July 31, 2:17 am
alyks Member
From: Arizona Registered: 2008-05-31 Posts: 914 Website

The ones I fail the most (Example: 受), are the ones I remember best later. Trust me, failing cards is awesome. Failing cards is something you should smile at.

Reply #9 - 2008 July 31, 3:41 am
kazelee Rater Mode
From: ohlrite Registered: 2008-06-18 Posts: 2132 Website

skinnyneo wrote:

Wizard wrote:

Eventually the story sticks. Is this bad? If it doesn't stick near enough first time does that mean I will forget it in the future? I presume I am eventually just memorising the stories.

I think it's perfectly okay to fail a kanji a bunch of times as it makes it stand out more as a kanji you need to focus on.  I am usually pretty hard on myself and fail lots of kanji that other people might say "ahh, it's just one stroke" or "ahhh well I just messed up the keyword but I got the kanji right for another one" and pass it.  To me though I think I think that you kinda fool youself into thinking you know the kanji better than you really do when you do that.  Sure it sucks to see a 60-70% retention rate even after 15,000 reviews but I think that building a solid foundation is the most important thing.  In the end really it's all for you (the sucesses AND the failures)!

I agree. I was almost at a point where I refused to mark a card as "EASY." Then I realized I should at least mark easy for the cards I won't ever forget- like sun and moon.

  • 1