A lot of advice that I read on here made me realize that you shouldn't worry too much about judging the story as you are creating it.  Even if you think it's not a good story at first (no cute mnemonic, no catchy pun, an odd scene) it might turn out to have been more memorable than you thought.  I have these stories that pop up in reviews sometimes, that I see the word and I know instantly that I had a bad story for that kanji, but as long as you link all the primitives together somehow, you will be able to remember it...Just have some more faith in your memory and the SRS. Don't worry about the story until you find that you can't remember it, but definitely not while creating it.

With really abstract primitives, using a character can help a lot. Choosing one you can relate to in your life a lot or has a strong image (these sometimes just come from brands even!) is best.

Someone recommended for "say" to use Socrates. I've finished a philosophy minor, so this was a great one for me.  I try to make my stories somehow relate to Socrates, greece, whatever. I also use Colonel Sanders (KFC) as the fingers primitive. Those stories somehow typically relate to stereotypes about the south or KFC.

Try making a character with strong connotations that you know a lot about, and build stories around those connotations.

For rebuke, I use the fact it's such a biblical word, the holy are always rebuking the heathens and such.  Picture some Spanish catholics butchering the heathen natives of South America with their godly words.

For chastise use the similarity with "chaste" and imagine the mother "chastising" her daughter, the words gluing to the poor girl and warding off her lusty suitors.

For admonish, and this is kind of cheating but for admonish I remember it's the longest of the "rebuke/chastise/admonish" trio, hence has the most complex kanji.  Come up with whatever story you like for 警, and use this observation to distinguish that from the other two.  (Incidentally 警 is used in 警察 = keisatsu = police, and indeed police lend themselves pretty well to an admonish story...)

EDIT:  Wow, just counting the letters now I see admonish actually is TIED with chastise for longest.  Weird, somehow to me it just "looks" longer.  Oh well, it works for me, maybe it can still work, as crazy as it is...

Last edited by snispilbor (2008 July 13, 2:51 pm)

Dont worry. More confusing kanji and you will find these easier. As you train yourself to learn kanji, you get better at it! And start to do it better.

Well.. I guess.. 18 is the first truly long chapter and if my memory serves me right it might have been a tricky one.. The one with 130 characters was a real bother and I actually stopped there on my first try. Fortunately I got through it with my second shot.

I think you really do get better at studying them and it gets easier. There was another hard part around half way through but that time I just "sat it through" only reviewing the old cards for weeks.

Don't feel bad for having to crawl. The downhill will be waiting. You're just not there yet.

I started speeding up at around 300, and in the mid 400's, it's biting me. Basically, the trouble I find is that I'm not spending enough time on building block elements that are used over and over. Failing that, any kanji they appear in also fail. For instance, I realized today I hadn't learned "Just So" very well, and therefore I also failed "Topic" completely, even though I remembered my story.

Composite kanji are a cinch when you really get the base components nailed.

Also, I'm finding the first SRS repetition on this site is often too long. If I enter something today, and it doesn't come up for, say, 3 days, and I've added more kanji each day in-between, the odds of my first repetition being successful is very low. Ideally, the next day I'd drill today's kanji for the first time. I may have to add some manual repetitions (using KanjiGym or something) to help with this.

Thanks for the posts guys!
All were helpful!

Reading is different from flipping through a stack of flash cards. (I should know, because that's how I first approached RTK... and it's really slow.) Reading is fine, but you don't need to constantly flip through your flashcards outside of reviews. Trust your brain to do its thing, and go do things that are more fun than flipping through flash cards. I know it feels counterintuitive, but once you fix an image in your head for a kanji, you shouldn't have to fight to remember it. You should just check to see... "Hinder... oh, that's where the guys at the Pinnacle will Hinder you if you don't have the proper Badge on." If it doesn't flow like that, then it's best to fail it, because as recent research shows, fighting to remember something is the worst way to learn to remember it easily.

So yeah, indulge your brain's laziness.

rich_f wrote:

Reading is different from flipping through a stack of flash cards. (吾 should know, because that's how 吾 first approached RTK... and it's really slow.) Reading is fine, but you don't need to constantly flip through your flashcards 外 of reviews. Trust your brain to do its thing, and go do things that are more fun than flipping through flash cards. 吾 know it feels counterintuitive, but once you fix an image 中 your head for a kanji, you shouldn't have to fight to remember it. You should just check to 見... "Hinder... oh, that's where the guys at the Pinnacle will Hinder you if you don't have the proper 章 on." If it doesn't flow like that, then it's best to fail it, because as recent research shows, fighting to remember something is the worst way to learn to remember it easily.

So yeah, indulge your brain's laziness.

Oh ok i always give myself roughly a minute to remember the story, sometimes i feel it coming, if i do i give myself another minute, but if i feel and know that nothing is coming, then i fail it.

Cause i figured slowly but surely if i give myself to find the story it will come to me faster and faster as more reviews kick in... but I guess i'll see when i come across them again.

Again thanks for the replies! i just hit 450 now and will see how things go next morning for review

rich_f wrote:

Finally, the struggle to remember is one of those things that's just counterintuitive. You think, "If I try really hard and remember this, it'll be a victory!" But your brain thinks, "I don't need to really learn this, because all I have to do to remember it is to struggle like this for a minute or two." Someone posted the article about the research done on that recently, I think. It's called "Tip of the Tongue" research, I think. The researchers advised dropping something if you can't remember it right away and looking it up later.

I have read the article a while back, but I'm not fully convinced that trying to remember something actually has that effect to that extent.. Haven't dug into the subject very deeply though.
I dont think that the brain thinks like that. More propably it'll think that "this is important and I need to remember this in the future", but it needs to dig it up. Instead you just give it the info and the struggle becomes unnecessary. Hence, conserved energy to be used elsewhere.

Im thinking about when you're trying hard to remember something (a name for example) and its right on the tip of your tongue but you just don't quite remember it. You give up and a half an hour later it just pops into your mind. Clearly your unconcious mind didn't give up on it even if you did.

Despite what I said previously, I think it really helps to give yourself a couple of seconds (ten, twenty..?) to remember the character or get a trail of the story that you can then follow to the character. Ofcourse if you seem have absolutely nothing, it doesn't really help to try in spite. Checking the card conserves energy and you still have given your subconcious the signal that this is important.

Last edited by alantin (2008 July 14, 1:43 pm)