シ and ツ, ン and ソ

snispilbor Member

From: Ohio USA Registered: 2008-03-23 Posts: 150 Website

Any tips on how to write シ and ツ, ン and ソ by hand so that they're clearly distinct? I've been having a lot of trouble, going to write one and it ends up looking like the other, despite that I'm using the correct stroke order with the correct stroke directions.

Hashiriya Member

From: Georgia Registered: 2008-04-14 Posts: 1072

シ - the 2 marks are sideways
ツ - the 2 marks are more downward
ン - the one mark is near the top
ソ - the one mark is near the middle

does that help? O_o

phauna Member

From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-12-25 Posts: 500 Website

Yes, but which sound does each of those have?

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Hashiriya Member

From: Georgia Registered: 2008-04-14 Posts: 1072

シ - shi is sideways
ツ - tsu is downward
ン - n is near the top
ソ　- so is in the middle

if you make some stories like the Heisig ones for each direction you can remember them easy...

phauna Member

From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-12-25 Posts: 500 Website

Pony up, then. If I could think of some good stories then I wouldn't have to guess every second katakana word like I do now.

Hashiriya Member

From: Georgia Registered: 2008-04-14 Posts: 1072

シ -shi (she) lays down sideways... are those 2 breasts?

ツ -the TSUnami crashes downward... see the 2 drops of water?

ン- the n is (N)ear the top...

ソ- when you say something is SO-SO it's not good or bad but in the Middle...

n00bs lawlz

zz_alex_zz Member

From: Japan Registered: 2007-10-04 Posts: 11

ソ (so) is somewhere between ン and リ. The stroke directions for ソ are the same as リ too. Maybe you could remember ソ as "ソリ" (SoRi -> Sorry).

I'll have a think about a way to remember シ & ツ... I think everyone gets them mixed up to begin with, but with time I just picked it up due to repetition.

phauna Member

From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-12-25 Posts: 500 Website

The only thing I have to add to this thread is what the hell were the Japanese thinking? Actually thank goodness they didn't just invent yet another alphabet just to cover these four sounds.

Katsuo M.O.D.

From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-02-06 Posts: 887 Website

snispilbor wrote:
Any tips on how to write シ and ツ, ン and ソ by hand so that they're clearly distinct?

Emphasize the "blob" at the start of the long strokes.

phauna wrote:
Yes, but which sound does each of those have?

For remembering which is which, think of the word 損失 (sonshitsu) meaning "a loss".

In katakana it would be ソンシツ.

Now just write it 300 times. OR, notice how it's in order of stroke count (2's then 3's). Also note that the outside characters are the ones where the short strokes are more vertical, a bit like apostrophes.

Paludis Member

From: Australia Registered: 2008-04-27 Posts: 24

the way I was taught, is that for シ and ン all the strokes should line up at the left side, and for ツ and ソ all the strokes should line up at the top. Also you draw the long stroke in a different direction, for シ and ン the long stroke goes up, whereas for ツ and ソ the long stroke goes down.

Last edited by Paludis (2008 May 24, 5:33 am)

wccrawford Member

From: FL US Registered: 2008-03-28 Posts: 1551

I just want to say thanks to everyone in this thread for the great tips!

Raichu Member

From: Australia Registered: 2005-10-27 Posts: 249 Website

I used to get マ and ム mixed up too.

I sorta agree with phauna about what they were thinking, but if you think about the roman character set, p b q d are pretty similar, not to mention r n h which my kid seems to draw too similar.

phauna Member

From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-12-25 Posts: 500 Website

Seriously, pbdq, not even close to as confusing as these. It's mainly due to brush strokes being quite obvious as to where they begin and end, computer fonts not so much.

Zarxrax Member

From: North Carolina Registered: 2008-03-24 Posts: 949

The stroke order with these is really important. "shi" or "n" have the long stroke drawn left to right. If you look closely at the font, you can see that on these two, the horizontal stroke is wider and less tall than the stroke in "tsu" or "so". When you write it by hand, be sure to exaggerate this a bit, by making your characters flatter or skinnier depending on which ones you write. Don't overdo it, but you shouldn't have any trouble recognizing your own writing after that. I still have trouble recognizing which is which when I'm reading text sometimes, so I'll just try them both in my mind and see which one sounds better :p

Last edited by Zarxrax (2008 May 24, 12:05 pm)

yukamina Member

From: Canada Registered: 2006-01-09 Posts: 761

When my teacher taught us シand ツ, she wrote シ(shi) with a bit of a hook at the bottom, like a check mark.　ツ(tsu) has the hook starting at the top, facing inwards. ソ(so) at the top, ン(n) at the bottom. In other fonts you can see the hooks...like in something printed on paper.Also, note how tsu's long line is more vertical and closer to the two drops compared to shi.

nortalf Member

Registered: 2008-03-10 Posts: 25

Raichu, it's easy:
マ is like an A slanted right a little,
ム is like a U slanted right a little.

DrJones Member

From: Spain Registered: 2007-12-19 Posts: 209

Try to draw シ over a し, and ツ over a つ.

Last edited by DrJones (2008 May 24, 3:49 pm)

cerulean Member

From: Ohio Registered: 2008-05-09 Posts: 133

I write them with sort of an arc in the dots. Try to imagine tiny circles where the arcs lay.

for シ, the arcs are being drawn clockwise..
for ツ, the arcs are being drawn counter-clockwise..　
ン　 clockwise
ソ counter-clockwise

It make not be completely correct, but it's recognizable, and easy for me to remember this way.

Also, I imagine ツ　(tsu) to be someone looking down at their shoes. tsu - shoe .. Heh, silly I know.

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snispilbor wrote:

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