About the Joyo Kanji...

Index » RtK Volume 1

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Reply #1 - 2008 April 15, 4:29 pm
charliechip95 Member
Registered: 2007-06-13 Posts: 13

I was wondering, is the entire joyo kanji included in RTK1? And if so, is the first 1945 kanji in RTK1 the joyo kanji?

I've been considering just learning the joyo kanji for a while. Is that OK or is there a good reason to finish the entire 2042 in the book?

Thanks,
Charliechip95

Reply #2 - 2008 April 15, 4:58 pm
Zarxrax Member
From: North Carolina Registered: 2008-03-24 Posts: 949

Yes, it includes them all, and no, they aren't in order.

Why learn all 2042 in the book? Well after learning 1945 kanji, seriously, is it gunna kill you to go for 97 more? :p

Reply #3 - 2008 April 15, 5:12 pm
Ryuujin27 Member
Registered: 2006-12-14 Posts: 824

And, in fact, I believe the Joyo kanji were increased some time ago to include the 2042 in this book.

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Reply #4 - 2008 April 15, 5:31 pm
pm215 Member
From: UK Registered: 2008-01-26 Posts: 1354

Ryuujin27 wrote:

And, in fact, I believe the Joyo kanji were increased some time ago to include the 2042 in this book.

Er, that's the wrong way round. The Japanese government added to the 1850 Touyou kanji in 1981 to create the current list of 1945 Jouyou kanji. So RtK was revised to include all the new ones.

The introduction talks about this kind of thing.

Reply #5 - 2008 April 15, 5:43 pm
amthomas Member
From: Japan Registered: 2006-06-22 Posts: 104

On that note, does anyone know if the recently revised Joyo list is completely covered by RTK3?

I'm nowhere near done RTK1 yet, but I'm curious as to whether Heisig is going to need to move some kanji from RTK3 to RTK1 because of the recent additions to the Joyo list. What is the total number now, anyway? It isn't listed on the wikipedia page yet, so have the changes even been introduced yet? Or, are they adding some kanji to the list that high school kids need to learn, and giving that list a new name (ala toyo/joyo kanji?)?

Reply #6 - 2008 April 15, 6:08 pm
Jarvik7 Member
From: 名古屋 Registered: 2007-03-05 Posts: 3946

pm215 wrote:

Ryuujin27 wrote:

And, in fact, I believe the Joyo kanji were increased some time ago to include the 2042 in this book.

Er, that's the wrong way round. The Japanese government added to the 1850 Touyou kanji in 1981 to create the current list of 1945 Jouyou kanji. So RtK was revised to include all the new ones.

The introduction talks about this kind of thing.

Actually you got it wrong. The Joyo kanji were extended this year. The changes are supposed to go into effect by 2010 I believe.

Reply #7 - 2008 April 15, 6:10 pm
Delina Member
From: US Registered: 2008-02-12 Posts: 102

It looks like 11 new kanji will be added starting in 2010. (Presumably this means that this is when they will be introduced to the curriculum).

http://www.nihongojouzu.com/2008/01/new … l-use.html

Most of these are in RtK 1, and this one 阜 is in RtK 3.

You can plug these into the search here:

http://www.mahou.org/Dict/

then click the kanji when it comes up, and scroll to the bottom to see what the RtK number is. If it's 2042 or less, it's in RtK 1, if it's higher it'll be in RtK 3.

Reply #8 - 2008 April 15, 6:21 pm
pm215 Member
From: UK Registered: 2008-01-26 Posts: 1354

I bet they didn't extend the Jouyou based on RTK, though!

Anyway, do you have a cite for the Jouyou having already been extended? My reading of the Japanese wikipedia article on the Jouyou is that although they've set up a commission it's not aiming to produce a report until 2010. It says (via the Nihon Keizai Shimbun) that they've already reached agreement on adding another 11 characters, but that's not at all the same thing as actually changing the Jouyou yet (they might change their minds back again, for a start). Delina's link seems to support this. My guess is that when they actually report in 2010 then assuming their recommendations are accepted the new set will get a new name (even if it's only 新常用漢字).

More interestingly, the Japanese wikipedia article also suggests that if the kanji set increases in size again they're thinking about designating a subset as "it's OK if you can only read these, not write them".

Reply #9 - 2008 April 16, 1:25 am
Katsuo M.O.D.
From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-02-06 Posts: 887 Website

charliechip95 wrote:

I was wondering, is the entire joyo kanji included in RTK1?

Almost; there is one missing, 璽, which is RTK3 no. 2075. It's pretty rare.


charliechip95 wrote:

And if so, is the first 1945 kanji in RTK1 the joyo kanji?

No, the following are the 98 non-Joyo kanji in RTK1:
17.吾,19.朋,24.呂,25.昌,27.旭,30.旦,32.亘,53.只,60.頁,110.汐,153.埼,155.圭,176.鯉,198.桂,199.柏,201.梢,203.杏,204.桐,218.沫,242.荻,279.辻,410.幌,411.錦,430.嬌,437.瞳,444.ヒ,462.乞,472.茨,501.曽,514.栃,520.虹,521.蝶,534.亀,553.羨,578.曰,603.串,686.乃,727.爪,765.允,776.蜜,777.嵐,800.裳,870.脇,907.梨,939.笠,940.笹,1031.瓦,1049.勿,1094.奈,1108.袖,1161.伊,1175.漕,1190.廿,1210.藤,1214.之,1224.智,1234.弘,1262.猪,1263.渚,1264.賭,1294.阪,1295.阿,1323.窪,1417.宛,1419.苑,1420.怨,1427.酉,1498.梓,1514.睦,1517.菱,1519.亥,1569.椿,1599.鎌,1609.栗,1614.楠,1647.韓,1716.彦,1718.須,1755.艶,1838.蒲,1877.瓜,1902.函,1904.牙,1943.鶴,1944.烏,1945.蔦,1946.鳩,1950.媛,1961.岡,1979.駒,1990.虎,1999.鹿,2003.熊,2006.寅,2008.辰,2040.丑,2041.卯,2042.巳

charliechip95 wrote:

I've been considering just learning the joyo kanji for a while. Is that OK or is there a good reason to finish the entire 2042 in the book?

I would say learn the whole book. Many of the 98 characters above are included because they are either (a) Useful as building-blocks for other kanji (e.g. 吾, ヒ, 頁, etc) or (b) Are very common in names (e.g. 藤, 岡, etc).

Reply #10 - 2009 February 21, 11:16 pm
onafarm Member
Registered: 2005-11-12 Posts: 129 Website

Jarvik7 wrote:

pm215 wrote:

Ryuujin27 wrote:

And, in fact, I believe the Joyo kanji were increased some time ago to include the 2042 in this book.

Er, that's the wrong way round. The Japanese government added to the 1850 Touyou kanji in 1981 to create the current list of 1945 Jouyou kanji. So RtK was revised to include all the new ones.

The introduction talks about this kind of thing.

Actually you got it wrong. The Joyo kanji were extended this year. The changes are supposed to go into effect by 2010 I believe.

Ryuujin27 certainly didn't get it wrong. The dates and numbers he indicates are correct.

As you've said, further changes have been signalled. I don't believe they're yet in place.

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