町　and　村： Keywords mixed up?

Index » RtK Volume 1

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Reply #1 - 2008 April 03, 9:44 pm
SamuraiDoug03 New member
From: Japan Registered: 2008-03-19 Posts: 9

I always learned 町 as "town" and 村 as "village".  however, Heisig has these two reversed.  Curious, I jumped over to Jim Breen's trusty WWWJDIC, and his meanings match the ones that I originally learned.  I'm only 210 kanji into the book... does this mix up have any adverse effects in later kanji?  I wouldn't think so... but I was just checking to see if anyone else on here had noticed or experienced any problems.

Reply #2 - 2008 April 03, 10:11 pm
vosmiura Member
From: SF Bay Area Registered: 2006-08-24 Posts: 1085

I think you're right.

Reply #3 - 2008 April 03, 10:24 pm
zazen666 Member
From: japan Registered: 2007-08-09 Posts: 667

I think you are right too. Funny no one has mentioned that yet.

I dont have perfect recall, but I dont think it that mix will hurt you when learning other kanji down the road

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Reply #4 - 2008 April 03, 10:27 pm
vosmiura Member
From: SF Bay Area Registered: 2006-08-24 Posts: 1085

I guess I just knew them as "machi" and "mura" already, so didn't think much about the keyword accuracy.

Reply #5 - 2008 April 03, 10:40 pm
Jarvik7 Member
From: 名古屋 Registered: 2007-03-05 Posts: 3946

zazen666 wrote:

I think you are right too. Funny no one has mentioned that yet.

I dont have perfect recall, but I dont think it that mix will hurt you when learning other kanji down the road

It has been mentioned, many many times. Heisig himself has even commented on it I believe.

Reply #6 - 2008 April 03, 10:50 pm
Ryuujin27 Member
Registered: 2006-12-14 Posts: 824

Whenever I see the card for either "town" or "village", I just write both and pass it.

wink

Reply #7 - 2008 April 03, 11:04 pm
SamuraiDoug03 New member
From: Japan Registered: 2008-03-19 Posts: 9

Jarvik7 wrote:

zazen666 wrote:

I think you are right too. Funny no one has mentioned that yet.

I dont have perfect recall, but I dont think it that mix will hurt you when learning other kanji down the road

It has been mentioned, many many times. Heisig himself has even commented on it I believe.

Curious, what was said by Heisig?  I mean i know the words.  I was just curious as to why he chose those keywords the way he did.

Reply #8 - 2008 April 04, 1:01 am
dsalcedo New member
From: USA Registered: 2007-08-06 Posts: 2

I thought it was just me remembering it wrong, but it's kinda nice to see other people thinking the same way.  It seems backwards.

Reply #9 - 2008 April 04, 1:20 am
aircawn Member
From: Australia Registered: 2006-07-18 Posts: 166

Ryuujin27 wrote:

Whenever I see the card for either "town" or "village", I just write both and pass it.

wink

I like this idea...

Reply #10 - 2008 April 04, 4:54 am
pm215 Member
From: UK Registered: 2008-01-26 Posts: 1354

I have a mental note for this pair, so whenever the review throws up 'village' I think "oh yes, stupid reversed keywords, what's the kanji for まち?" and then produce 町... I think writing both is not such a good idea here because they do have definitely distinct meanings (you could make a better argument for writing both for some of the easily-confused keyword pairs.)

Reply #11 - 2008 April 04, 5:31 am
Raichu Member
From: Australia Registered: 2005-10-27 Posts: 249 Website

There are occasions when Heisig uses either an incorrect meaning (e.g. 町 = town, not really village) or an unusual or secondary meaning for a kanji. Does 乙 (2nd sign of zodiac, fashionable, witty, the latter) really mean fishguts, or 召 (summon, call, wear, eat) seduce? The point is that it's meant to be a "keyword", a mnemonic to help you learn the kanji, not an accurate rendition in English of the character which sometimes has more than one meaning.

I often use a different keyword for study purposes because it happens to come easier to me or I already learned the accurate meaning of that kanji before I started using RTK. It does mean that I have some trouble with the review page when the meaning I use for one kanji happens to pop up as the keyword for another. But I prefer being more accurate with my keywords in spite of that problem.

Reply #12 - 2008 April 04, 11:55 am
Ryuujin27 Member
Registered: 2006-12-14 Posts: 824

I think it's also fair to state that I already know the readings and uses for  町 and 村. That's why I just write both and pass it.

Thought, I guess it wouldn't be too taxing on my memory to remember they are switched.

Reply #13 - 2008 April 04, 9:22 pm
cangy Member
From: 平安京 Registered: 2006-12-13 Posts: 372 Website

zazen666 wrote:

I think you are right too. Funny no one has mentioned that yet.

There's plenty of comments about it on the study page...

I didn't use it when I was reviewing here, but since adding an extra keyword field to my anki deck, I'd recommend using the substitute keywords greasemonkey script to sort out this sort of thing.

Reply #14 - 2008 April 04, 9:37 pm
wrightak Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2006-04-07 Posts: 873 Website

I think that anyone who is that upset about "town" and "village" should consider joining me in my Japanese keywords mission (less than 300 to go!). English keywords are only ever going to be approximations but 町 is definitely まち and 村 is definitely むら. If you review from the hiragana, there's no risk of a mix up AND it's accurate.

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