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I got up to 616 frames last Thursday and haven't done turd since. The thought of doing RTK alone makes me cringe, any tips on how to deal with not wanting to do anything?
Presuming you're using Anki or something - just do one card, every day. That is, review one card. Don't add anything. Should you feel inspired to do more, go for it. But otherwise just open the thing up and do one. 'Every day' being the important part. Once this is happening nicely and you're feeling some kind of rhythm going on with your studies, feel free to set your bar a bit higher. Momentum is the thing.
Alternatively: drop RTK and go study something else. There are plenty of other parts of Japanese you could study. Go learn some words or something.
You should ask Mr Heisig for forgiveness. Repent and he will absolve you. If you're a true believer, that is.
If you're not, do something else.
The frame of the devil !
When going through RTK, I'd always do my reps for the day. And if I didn't feel like doing more, then I wouldn't, simple as that... I learn Japanese for leisure, because it's a fun thing to do. Don't feel bad about taking a small break, as long as you keep doing some Japanese every day, however little it is - momentum is important, you have to keep moving, even if a little, otherwise you might find it hard to jump back in.
If finishing RTK sounds unbearable to you, you can either :
- limit the number of new frames you add per day or
- Start doing something else... go through a grammar if that's your thing, or start doing sentences, or why not going through Pimsleur or similar audio courses ? Whatever works for you - doing some "concrete" Japanese can be a huge help motivation-wise
RTK is hardly mandatory or anything - it's an efficient shortcut, but nothing worth burning out over.
Last edited by Linval (September 30, 4:36 am)
How do you deal with not feeling like studying?
I don't study. But I can see how my method is less than optimal.
Stansfield123 wrote:
How do you deal with not feeling like studying?
I don't study. But I can see how my method is less than optimal.
Yes, this is what I do. Sometimes for six months at a time. Then I bounce back!
Needless to say, don't do what I do. But if you do... it's not the end of the world.
Last edited by Betelgeuzah (September 30, 6:57 am)
Maybe you're forcing yourself to do too much studying and not enough fun breaks? (Fun breaks as in doing something related to Japanese, but is more hobby-related. Like looking at Japanese art blogs or watching anime or whatever got you interested in Japanese in the first place.) If you keep your nose to the grindstone too long diligently memorizing your Anki deck or whatever, Japanese will feel like a chore that you are dreading. You could at least study for 10 minutes, have a fun break for 5 minutes, then go back to studying for 10 minutes, and so on.
RTK was my break from studying (reading native materials).
On a more serious note, RtK is never going to be a fun thing you just breeze through. It wasn't entirely because I didn't feel like studying (I also had some more objective reasons), but it took me two attempts, separated by almost a year, to finally go through it.
But, on my second attempt, I did do it in a little under six weeks. And I kinda enjoyed it (not so much the actual work, but I enjoyed beating the challenge I set myself - of finishing by the end of the year, which was six weeks away).
I would suggest giving up for now, and later on, if you find the motivation, setting aside a month to six weeks where you can dedicate 4-5 hours a day (3 first thing in the morning, and then another 1-2 later in the day) to studying, and just do it.
Or, if you don't think you're up to that task, just do Rtk light or ultra-light (which is a little over 500 Kanji), and then add to your deck over time, as you come across new Kanji.
Last edited by Stansfield123 (September 30, 9:02 am)
Stansfield123 wrote:
How do you deal with not feeling like studying?
I don't study. But I can see how my method is less than optimal.
That was my method as well, although I took classes until I had enough ability to at least do something with native sources (although most of my self study at that point was still Kanji in Context). To me that was one of the best things about classes, is that it forced me to study through the couple of years where I couldn't make sense of native sources well enough to keep my interest.
murtada wrote:
I got up to 616 frames last Thursday and haven't done turd since. The thought of doing RTK alone makes me cringe, any tips on how to deal with not wanting to do anything?
My own method of getting through RTK1 won't work for everyone, but here's how I did it:
a) During the week (Monday to Friday) I would "process" between new 50-100 kanji. By "process" I mean, study the kanji in Heisig's book and make up a story about each one. Write the story down in my notebook. I also made paper flashcards for the week's new kanji.
b) On the weekend, I would run through the previous week's new kanji a couple of times until I could nail them. By "run through" I mean cover up the kanji, look at the keyword, and write the kanji. If necessary, reread the story I made up in order to recall the kanji. Sometimes you have to tweak the story. You'll have to do this a couple of times before you can do all of the new kanji from the previous week. I used the flashcards in this process too.
c) Periodically do a mass review of around 300 kanji that you previously learned (keyword to kanji, and write the kanji down). I tended to do this early in the morning on the weekend. The three hundred were always in Heisig order, e.g., one weekend I would review #1 to #300, another weekend I might do #300 - #500 etc.
To make it fun, I would use different colored magic markers to write the kanji, e.g., red for the first hundred, green for the second, etc.
d) Occasionally I tested myself going from kanji to keyword (in spite of Heisig saying not to do this, I found this useful).
I didn't use Anki at all in going through RTK1. I DID try Anki later for vocabulary learning but I don't like it at all. Too boring. (Stare at screen. Provide what you think the correct answer is. Push spacebar. See if you were right. Repeat. Yuck.). If you're using Anki to learn Heisig, I say, no wonder you're cringing at the thought of RTK1.
Last edited by john555 (September 30, 9:40 am)
john555 wrote:
My own method of getting through RTK1
Couldn't you have just drawn the kanji when they came up on this site or in anki and saved yourself most of that work?
cracky wrote:
john555 wrote:
My own method of getting through RTK1
Couldn't you have just drawn the kanji when they came up on this site or in anki and saved yourself most of that work?
Nope.
When I don't feel like studying and kinda of just want to watch anime or Japanese Shows for fun and immersion I put what ever media I am watching on the left and have Anki on the right running with the Slideshow add on.
This is good if you want to not really put the effort into actually focusing on doing the reps and grading of your answers and just having it on cram mode not worrying about the scheduling part of Anki.
Not sure how well it works for RTK decks but for the Core Decks it works well for me because they have audio so if you hear a word you know or want to know you can just look at the word and learn passively.
Also like everyone esle said just do something to get you the moment and use what ever method works for you and gets you do the amount of Japanese you want for your language goals.
RTK is real boring. I did RTK reps while listening to podcasts and watching movies since it was so mindless.
cracky wrote:
john555 wrote:
My own method of getting through RTK1
Couldn't you have just drawn the kanji when they came up on this site or in anki and saved yourself most of that work?
John555 is our resident hipster.
I'm working through RTK for the second time now and having much more success because I don't push myself (I just review 20-30 cards on days when I don't feel like adding new cards) and am working through Core and other materials at the same time. I know you're not supposed to do the latter but being able to connect a Kanji to an actual word really helps so much in terms of both retention and motivation. Like the others, just reviewing for a bit and focusing on some real Japanese until you feel ready to get back to studying the Kanji.
I keep a list of goals and things related to those goals (books I want to read, info related to things I want to do, etc.) prominently displayed near my study area, and then I take a look at them when I feel like slacking.
If that doesn't motivate me right away, I then ask myself, "Do you want to waste your time reading some useless articles online or would you rather spend your time making these goals become real?"
My last line of defense is to look at a picture of my wife and myself. If I can't motivate myself, she can.
Try these out and let us know if they work.
I can only strongly suggest keeping up with the daily reviews, even if you don't add any new kanji.
Don't be afraid of staying where you are until you feel more inspired, but the last thing you want is to lose the hard work you've already done. 600+ frames is an accomplishment in itself... don't lose it!
andres9888 wrote:
When I don't feel like studying and kinda of just want to watch anime or Japanese Shows for fun and immersion I put what ever media I am watching on the left and have Anki on the right running with the Slideshow add on.
This is good if you want to not really put the effort into actually focusing on doing the reps and grading of your answers and just having it on cram mode not worrying about the scheduling part of Anki.
Not sure how well it works for RTK decks but for the Core Decks it works well for me because they have audio so if you hear a word you know or want to know you can just look at the word and learn passively.
Also like everyone esle said just do something to get you the moment and use what ever method works for you and gets you do the amount of Japanese you want for your language goals.
I had no idea there was an addon like that! I'll be trying that out lol
Say **** it and do the reviews and add a few kanji anyway.
It works.
Is your problem reviewing the kanji you've learned or learning new ones?
If the thought of doing Anki reps makes you cringe, here's something that helped me out a lot recently: put the story on the front of the card. [*] I also add synonyms, kana, memorable phrases, etc., to the keyword, to help recall the full story. I did this and realized that I hated reviewing because of the stress of getting things wrong; by making it "easier", that stress is gone, and I do my reviews with quite a bit of joy.
And that joy is related to the other side of the coin, that of not wanting to learn new kanji. I find myself enjoying learning new kanji because I enjoy making up stories for each kanji, mainly because I have come up with gross, inappropriate, offensive, hilarious, or explicit person or object for each radical and primitive that I encounter. It has to be a concrete person or object, like the keyword [**]. Each primitive/radical has to be concrete because that ensures that any story involving them will inherit the salacious and scandalous nature of the components. The top stories for 谷 and 欲 might make the following quote from a recent popular book on memory techniques more concrete:
In "Moonwalking with Einstein", Foer wrote:
[The fourteenth-century English theologian and mathematician] Bradwardine could translate even the most pious benediction into a preposterous scene. To remember the topic sentence of a sermon that begins “Benedictus Dominus qui per,” he’d see “the sainted Benedictine dancing to his left with a white cow with super-red teats who holds a partridge, while with his right hand he either mangles or caresses St. Dominic.” The art of memory was, from its origins, always a bit risqué. Preoccupied with Gothic and sometimes downright lewd imagery, it was bound to come in for harsh criticism from the prudes eventually. ... When the moralistic attack finally came, it was led by the sixteenth-century Puritan reverend William Perkins of Cambridge. He decried the art of memory as idolatrous and “impious, because it calls up absurd thoughts, insolent, prodigious, and the like which stimulate and light up depraved carnal affections.” Carnal indeed. Perkins was particularly steamed by Peter of Ravenna’s admission [written in 1545] that he used the lustful image of a young woman to excite his memory.
Like Foer, I find the activity of combining concrete elements (characters from films, friends I know, objects, body parts, bodily functions, etc.) enjoyable in its own right. The fact that I'm learning kanji makes it just that much more fun. And this is also why I enjoy doing reps: I am always pleasantly surprised and slightly appalled when I recall the story.
So that's how I've been able to beat my aversion to Anki. There's other little things (like, I don't use the Anki Deck Browser to edit cards, it's so ugly that it saps my will to live) but maybe these will help you out.
---
Notes.
[*] I made the story on the card-front small and gray-colored, with the keyword much larger, so I only look at the story if I really want to. And then usually the first 2--3 words is sufficient to remember the story and nail the kanji. (Also, on the front of the card, I added some Javascript magic to replace all kanji in the story with boxes, since sometimes I put the target kanji in the story.) I read about this method first on AJATT, where it was called Kendo's method.
[**] If the keyword isn't a concrete thing or person that I can visualize, I annotate the keyword with some concrete sense of the word. "Green" becomes "emerald city" (from Wizard of Oz, a film that I particularly loathe). tangorin.com is my friend.
Last edited by aldebrn (October 03, 10:21 am)
Helltrixz wrote:
Say **** it and do the reviews and add a few kanji anyway.
It works.
That, my friend, is how I got through. That's not to say that I always succeed on my reviews these days. I'm still in the 50s every day.
erlog wrote:
RTK is real boring. I did RTK reps while listening to podcasts and watching movies since it was so mindless.
You must be gifted. Even people talking in the background kills my concentration (and so, accuracy).
What I do is a combination of "keep it up" and "do something else".
Personally I would keep up with the reviews at the very least. After a few days of not adding new cards you will have a lot less reviews and they will seem more manageable. If you don't keep up with reviews, the cards you thought you knew yesterday are getting forgotten by the day. The last thing I want to do is relearn a bunch of new cards that I didn't have to..
I've noticed that it's a lot less of a drag if I'm studying varied material instead of everything homogenized and monotonous. I would try adding some vocabulary into your studies. You're going to have to learn it anyway, so why not get that aspect moving. And hey, it'll probably be fun! I just ran into the opposite problem where 9o% of my time was spent on core vocabulary and sentences and it was beginning to get really boring. So now I'm adding kanji again (I put rtk on review only mode a while ago to learn spoken Japanese). Adding just a few extra kanji is making the whole process a lot more fun.
Btw, I've noticed your posts and it seems like you are swinging back and forth from incredibly ambitious to demoralized. If you are going to get through this process, you need to understand that this is a marathon, not a sprint. You need to set a pace that you can keep up with for years. Otherwise you might burn out and never come back and all of your effort will be wasted. But if you go with a schedule that you can keep up for the long run, there's a lot better chance of getting to where you want to be and it'll be a lot more fun.

