Now after the "short" introduction, the questions I'd like to address.

I've tried to shadow parts of an audio book I'm listening to at the moment, but wasn't able to shadow even one single sentence. Now I'd like to get some advise by the people who have worked with "shadowing".
     The book is not in Japanese (that will come after I've finished RTK1) but in French, and the 15min portion I choose had been reduced in tempo by 15%, so I could quite easily understand what was being said. I just listened 3 times to the audio without trying to shadow while walking to and from work, and tried to shadow the audio on the 4th time. Even though I tried I was only able to shadow one or two words, or the end of a sentence, when the pause to the next sentence was long enough.
     So I wonder if it would be better to start the shadowing while reading along with the text in hand, rather than shadow while only listening and not reading along.

I also tried to shadow an English audio text, which I thought I knew by heart but it was as bad as the experiment with the French one. I'm not even sure I'd be able to shadow an audio in my mother tongue without the aid of a text.
    It's obvious that shadowing is a skill that I have to develop, but at the moment it's more frustrating than rewarding...

Last edited by Biene (2008 February 14, 7:33 am)

I can understand how shadowing can improve one's pronunciation, but how can it really improve one's fluency?  Especially if one is shadowing literature which probably isn't exactly very contemporary in nature.  Any thoughts?

wrightak wrote:

Despite translating an entire book full of shadowing exercises, I've never been a big proponent of trying to say words simultaneously with the audio. I think it's a better exercise just to hear it, then mimic it afterwards.

When you say 'simultaneously', is the aim to speak at exactly the same time as the speaker in the dialogue? At the moment I trail behind by (approximately) 3/4 of a second.

As for the efficacy of shadowing vs. repeating, I think both have their place. For example, repeating phrases (esp. long ones) should improve your listening abilities overall as if you're unpractised at this, you'll forget the beginning of the sentence by the time you get to the verb!

Shadowing, on the other hand, provides a better opportunity IMO to work on pronunciation and pace.

oh yeah I used News VOA: www.voanews.com which has written news articles that are also available to download by mp3, spoken by a newscaster.  They have 55 different languages available including Chinese, but unfortunately no Japanese area.

I've been looking through the How-to-learn-any-language forum a bit more and found that Ardaschir/ProfArguelles sais at some point that reading along while listening to the audio should be used before the actuall shadowing. When shadowing a TV-show or an actual conversation that might be a bit hard, but it might really help to get used to the language.

I also agree that my choise of material might be a bit too high up at the moment. So I'll just read (without mouthing) along with the audio book, but will use an audio from my workbook to use for shadowing.

Since I haven't fully figured out how this all works, I can't be sure that it will improve fluency, but I assume that reading out loud along or shadowing an audio of the target language will force one to train the mouthing (nerve-muscel-connection) of the target language; and in the long run might help to obtain the speed that is normally used.

Thanks for the input, I'll give it another more thorough try, since the combination of shadowing with using Assimil sound quite promising.

I got some free shadowing CDs and texts from a language school in Tokyo where I went for a summer course. I found it to be useful but a little boring over the long term. It is something that I come back to once in a while though and it definately has its place as one of my learning tools.

Even though it was really hard at first, after a few runs my ability to get my tounge around some of the longer conjugations really improved.

My opinion is that you really have to think about what you want to get from this or indeed any other exercise. I decided that it wasn't going to teach me grammar or vocabulary or even help me produce sentences since it is not really active production of the language. What it did highlight though is that my speach is really staccato(?), my little "tsu" sounds are non-existant, and my intonation is typically "foreign". Because I was forced to think about these things I found that my listening ability really jumped, especially when listening to full speed Japanese.

My method was to listen to the CD with the book open and try to match my speed and intonation to the people speaking. I read along and didn't try to remember the sentences because that wsn't my aim. At first I tried being slightly behind but then I couldn't concentrate on either my own voice or the CD so I switched to speaking simultaneously. This switch was "my" key to success.

I would reccomend starting with something easy. Isolated sentences not whole books, and keep doing the same sentences over and over until you can match your pace with the person on the CD. The Unicom books are good for this.

Regarding TBS News

yorkii wrote:

this is seriously a good source for shadowing.

This is a seriously good source. Period

It seems that many on this thread are only talking about how shadowing helps with pronounciation and intonation.  IMO it helps with much more.  Among other things, I have found it greatly improved my listening skills.  Before shadowing there would be many words I did not catch and therefore not understand what was being said.  But when I started shadowing it forced me to pay attention to every word that is said and further understand what was being said. 

I like to shadow the jpod101 dialogues.  with the beginning lessons they say the dialogue 3 times.  First they say it at normal speed and I just try to understand what is being said.  Second they say it slowly and I try to shadow every word.  Then they say it a third time with line by line translation and I again shadow.  After listening to the lesson I listen to the dialogue one more time at full speed and I try to shadow again. 
For something I was going to listen to anyway, the shadowing just makes the listening more engaging.  Before when I wasn't shadowing I would often find my mind wandering and get bored.

Shadowing IMO is a great way to enhance what you are already doing.  For example you can shadow dramas, movies, etc. that otherwise you would be listening to anyway.
I sometimes even shadow conversation I hear on the train (in my mind).

nac_est wrote:

laner36 wrote:

I sometimes even shadow conversation I hear on the train (in my mind).

Ahah, for a moment I imagined shadowing someone on the train, out loud... I wonder what the reaction would be

Reminds me of Wayne's World (3?) when Wayne is walking around shouting Chinese

It worked for him!

Wakela wrote:

That's the one I use in my class!  Thanks for the translation.

No problem! It's great to hear that some people are using the book and find it of value. I definitely didn't do the work for the money.

I'd like to state that IMO shadowing and chorusing are different. I realize some like to shadow simultaneously with the recording, rather than lagging a fraction of a second. But that's not what I'm talking about. Here are my rough definitions:

Chorusing is used with syllables, words, or single sentences. The item is short - one has to have it memorized (on the fly is acceptable) to be able to eliminate any discrepencies between the voice and the recording. The item is repeated in high repetitions. The purpose of chorusing is to improve pronunciation. I'm convinced that it improves pronunciation.

Shadowing is used with several minutes of recorded material. It's not necessary to have the material memorized - the sound guides the speaker, and there may be a slight lag. The item is repeated in low to moderate repetitions. Some like to repeat until they have it memorized. One purpose of shadowing is pronunciation. Other purposes are listening, grammar, etc. I'm convinced that it improves pronunciation, but I don't know about the other stuff.

I wrote this because it seems some posters are confusing the two. I know that this is a little controversial. There are certainly some overlaps between Chorusing and Shadowing, and some believe they are essentially the same thing. Maybe one can think of chorusing as short, high-rep, intensive shadowing in which a lag is not acceptable.

stehr wrote:

leosmith, can chorusing include recording yourself to mimic the recording/tape of the naitive speaker?  I've done this to check out how good/bad my accent was and tweak it a bit, I'm wondering this method is....on the topic of improving accent

Hi stehr, a lot of people do that (especially Mandarin learners), and say it's very helpful. It's not chorusing, but it is helpful.

For me it would probably be helpful, but not as good as chorusing. When I'm talking right on top of the recording, I can tweek my voice to almost perfectly replicate the recording. It's an istantaneous biofeedback correction process which is my favorite kind:)

On the other hand people who don't have an "ear for the language" might not take to chorusing very well. I think it's best to experiment.