For me it depends on the word. Some words just stick in my mind really well, and others I can't remember for the life of me. I'm not sure what makes a word easy or difficult, but it does get frustrating.
I just suspended every card that gave me trouble repeatedly, just focusing on the easy ones. This makes reviews go a lot faster too. After getting through everything, I rescheduled all the suspended cards as new again. On the second time through, I had encountered some of them in native material, so they stuck better. And some of them were just easier the second time around. I still suspended the ones that gave me trouble again.
I'm now finished with core6k except for about 1000 cards that I had suspended, and I don't really care about those at the moment. I might go back to them someday, maybe in a year or so.

Last edited by Zarxrax (2013 December 29, 6:40 pm)

Maybe try context like learn from song lyrics with rikaichan. If u need music suggestions check out threads here, YouTube, etc

Well u dont have to add cards when u do song lyrics. Maybe the  song lyrics will contain kanji he had trouble with. I personally didnt do anki with song lyrics and I still learned since  words and grammar come up time and time again in other songs or just media in general. Learn from song lyrics and do not feel obligated to anki it unless u want to add it your core card bc its a memorable phrase\context. It just sounds like he has low retention bc it's boring and unmemorable ? and the question he should be asking is why would my retention be high ?

also japanese subtitles available  for dramas and anime and movies ( search threads) and talk variety shows have text everywhere on the screen.

What's your reason for learning g japanese anyway ? What I mean by his is what do u enjoy doing in japanese or hope to enjoy doing in japanese ? Hopefully your goal isn't to get 100% retention for core by only drilling core with anki. Anki is used to length your memory not drilling information like flashcards so u can pass the test and dump the info the next day. If its not even in your short term there's no point a anking it ( like u said u wasted your time failing it couple times later despite drilling in anki which is not correct use of anki) . Anki is not used to teach. It's only used to extend the memory

Last edited by howtwosavealif3 (2013 December 29, 10:03 pm)

Most people with relatively normal lives can't or won't dedicate to a language (or any other activity) while sacrificing other activities in the process. Human life needs a certain balance.

Studying a language through actual studying or consuming native material can be a taxing process. It demands full concentration. To maintain balance there should be some different activities as well, things that aren't so mentally demanding yet feel enjoyable. Such as discussing the language on this forum.

15 hours here vs. 15 hours studying japanese does not necessarily lead to better japanese skills. Rather it may lead to a burnout.

arnaldosfjunior,
you seem to be posting a lot lately. Good for you.

I find it reassuring that even digital natives want to learn anything, just anything. Why not Japanese?

I've been visiting language related sites for some fifteen years now. I learned a lot. Not about languages, mind you.

arnaldosfjunior wrote:

Betelgeuzah wrote:

Most people with relatively normal lives can't or won't dedicate to a language (or any other activity) while sacrificing other activities in the process. Human life needs a certain balance.

I see your point. Isn't it common sense? Very appreciated comment. Now, I need you to show us just one (not 10, or a hundred, just 1) person who speaks Japanese high level and has this ''balance''. Skillful foreign Japanese speakers always sacrifice It's just inevitable.

Betelgeuzah wrote:

15 hours here vs. 15 hours studying japanese does not necessarily lead to better japanese skills. Rather it may lead to a burnout.

This time I must disagree fundamentally because, yes, it does. It really does. 15 hours studying japanese does necessarily lead to better japanese skills. In 15 hours you can watch the entire season of a drama like 相棒(you can find it in the internet with subs and watch one time with them and one without, use subs2srs and extract the audio, put on the ipod and listen many times(or you can keep here, just here, and reach 200,300, 1000 posts with the same time)) and memorise more words than you would in the same amount of time doing reps on anki using core.

Related:
    How Many Hours Should I Study Japanese A Day?
http://japaneselevelup.com/how-many-hou … ese-a-day/
    The Rage To Master Japanese
http://japaneselevelup.com/rage-to-master-japanese/

You don't know how much the person in question is studying Japanese, all you know is that he has spent 15 hours here discussing the language and X hours studying it. Maybe (and this is the worst case scenario) the person in question has not only posted on this forum but in addition done several of the many following, quite outrageous things:

a) Interacted with non-Japanese for reasons not related to Japanese studies or surviving (work, school, daily tasks).
b) Engaged him- or herself in a hobby and/or activity that does not improve his or her Japanese.
c) Done activities just for fun with no personal improvement or little effort required such as watching TV, movies and playing video games in the native language or making love with a significant other.
c) Done all of the above and more so as to distance one's self from constant exposure to the language (and other activities that take up a significant amount of time), leading to a much more balanced mental state and well-being, and thus to a reduced chance of a burnout.

I understand that on this forum every minute awake can and should be used to improving one's Japanese. Sacrificing some small things for a better Japanese ability is no big of a deal, right? Since we all know what's more important of the two in the long-term; letting one's body and mind relax once in a while or constantly trying to improve 24/7.

Last edited by Betelgeuzah (2013 December 30, 7:43 am)

Betelgeuzah wrote:

...

TLDR but, as we always say, good point. I probably agree at some point.

Jesus Christ I'm a f***ing idiot. I've been adding cards and marking them easy instead of good the FIRST time I get them right. I think this is my problem.

arnaldos, I appreciate your intent, but I've literally read every single article on that site. I am very motivated to learn Japanese, my only problem is one of retention. I don't see where you got the idea that I'm not motivated enough from.

Retention mostly comes with use. You can't just memorize a language, you have to use the words and patterns, as you're learning them. By use I mean read, listen, and maybe even write once you're able to.

The song suggestion is especially good. If a word you're listening to also shows up in the songs on your ipod, or the shows you watch, or the manga you read, you'll have no trouble remembering it.

If you try to just brute force every word through repetition with Anki, it's gonna be a lot of work and frustration. Language learning doesn't have to be hard work.

Note that I'm not an expert. I'm just sharing my methods and experiences. I use Anki for half an hour every day (add a few new cards on a daily basis), and, obviously, in the course of using Anki I do memorize a lot of words. But not all of them, in fact in my estimation, not most of them. More often than not what happens is that I:
1. add a new card in Anki that helps me clarify the exact meaning of a word I already heard before; that means there's a lot less to remember about it.
2. add a card with a totally strange word. I learn it superficially (or struggle with it), and eventually end up coming across it in the wild. Then, whenever I review that card in Anki, I am reminded of this encounter. That makes it so much easier to understand.

Of course, my deck also has words that I don't come across in the wild at all. But, because it's not most of them, and because I only use Anki sparingly anyway, it's not as difficult to handle those words as it would be if there was 20 of them every day.

P.S. With Anki, failing cards is part of the process. Don't treat failing  (and suspending, if they reach a leech limit - mine is 7 or 8) a card as your failure, treat it as a natural part of the process.

When I get that little message that "this card is now a leech and has been suspended", I don't go "I can't believe I'm so stupid that I had 8 tries and couldn't remember this word". Instead, I go "Congratulations to me. I patiently reviewed this word 8 or more times. My job here is done. Now it's time to say goodbye to it, and trust that eventually, I'll come across it in natural usage. And when I do, it's gonna be a piece of cake to learn it, because of the effort I put into it here with Anki."

And that's not "self delusion" or "positive thought". That's actually the truth. That's the limit of Anki. It serves as a foundation. The rest of the building will be added on as you encounter these words in native use.

AlgoRhythmic wrote:

Yeah, definitely focus on native material

Well said. As long as most of your time is spent in an anki deck, you're going to be dissatisfied with the results, and things won't get better until you realize this and do something about it. Many people have been through this realization process, and one of things they have in common is denial. So I doubt that writing this will help you in any way, but I'm bored.

wulfgar2 wrote:

AlgoRhythmic wrote:

Yeah, definitely focus on native material

Well said. As long as most of your time is spent in an anki deck, you're going to be dissatisfied with the results, and things won't get better until you realize this and do something about it. Many people have been through this realization process, and one of things they have in common is denial. So I doubt that writing this will help you in any way, but I'm bored.

Ok I think there might be a reading comprehension problem on this board. I CLEARLY SAID I was going to use more native materials. I'm not in "denial" about anything, thanks very much.