I think hes doing pretty well.

Yes its not fluent and for sure he'll get nowhere near 2kyuu level which I think was his original target, but hes clearly putting the effort in and hes definitely doing better than most people would after 2 months of study.

RawToast wrote:

His listening might end up at N2/N3 level and it would be interesting to see him try just the listening section of the online sample test.

Sorry, but No Way. Not even close.

Speaking is a piece of cake compared to listening---you're in complete control. That's just watching someone do a pattern they've practiced, like me playing "The Entertainer" on piano. Just because I can do one song half ass doesn't mean I can "play the piano."

The real test of fluency is listening.  Being able to answer questions and have a two-way discussion is the skill that's needed in real life.

He'd be lucky to be N4 by early January. But okay, prove me wrong. Let's see Mr. Benny Lewis take just the JLPT listening tests at the end of 3 months.  He won't do it, but somehow he'll find a way to claim he's "between B1 and B2" or "fluent."

The JLPT listening tests are short enough to do N4, N3, and N2 in a morning.  So prove me wrong.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to playing "Blackbird" on guitar.

Not bad for two months, but still false advertising.

JapaneseRuleOf7 wrote:

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to playing "Blackbird" on guitar.

There's this guy here who plays that song, with speakers, outside my apartment several times a day every weekend. Thankfully, the rain and cold have been settling in, so he hasn't been showing up lately. Unfortunately, this weekend was on the warm side, and so he returned. Fortunately, I have great full-ear headphones.

I used to truly love that song, but that guy and all the other ones posing as sensitive and profound while playing it on the beach and college campuses have more or less ruined it for me. Now I instinctively go for Pantera or Slayer when I hear the first few notes coming through my windows.

vileru wrote:

JapaneseRuleOf7 wrote:

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to playing "Blackbird" on guitar.

There's this guy here who plays that song, with speakers, outside my apartment several times a day every weekend. Thankfully, the rain and cold have been settling in, so he hasn't been showing up lately. Unfortunately, this weekend was on the warm side, and so he returned. Fortunately, I have great full-ear headphones.

I used to truly love that song, but that guy and all the other ones posing as sensitive and profound while playing it on the beach and college campuses have more or less ruined it for me. Now I instinctively go for Pantera or Slayer when I hear the first few notes coming through my windows.

You really should tell him to go bugger off... I can't imagine how annoying that would be T_T

He is doing quite well!

I'm impressed that he was able to pull off that thing:

僕は外国人のための電車の別料金を見つけたので二十一日間乗り放題のパスを買います。

Last edited by Inny Jan (2013 November 18, 2:32 am)

Yeah, I'm not in any way criticizing what you wrote. Like you (and I think, many people) I'd just like to see some measure of this "fluency," because it's not difficult for people to BS about the things they want to BS about. But that doesn't make you fluent.

Benny promotes his "language hacking" methods, which somehow differ from "studying my ass off," and since he's doing it with Japanese, okay, after 3 months, how many things can you talk about, and to what depth? Will that be for here or to go? Do you want cream and sugar? One way or round-trip? These are everyday questions.

The JLPT is a standardized measure of Japanese ability  used world-wide. Half a million people take the test every year. And here's one guy who's devised a shortcut method. Great. So back it up. Take the test.

Vempele wrote:

What's the JLPT level you're supposed to be at after 3 months of studying your ass off, anyway? N3?

If we're talking about the whole test, I'd be fairly impressed with anyone who did N5 after three months, and very impressed with N4.  I'd be super-duper holy shit impressed with N3 (I think it's borderline impossible).

If you're just doing the listening, though, I'd be fairly impressed with N4 and very impressed with N3.

JapaneseRuleOf7 wrote:

The real test of fluency is listening.  Being able to answer questions and have a two-way discussion is the skill that's needed in real life.

Pretty much this. it's actually really difficult to accurately assess his level when he is doing all the talking. My assumption though, judging from his pronunciation, is that he isn't really used to half the words he is saying and I wouldn't count on him to be able to understand them on the fly. That said he has made non negligible progress.

For everyone saying n3 is impossible, I passed the old 3kyuu after about 4-5 months. You don't need to know every single word on the word lists or every grammar point. N4 should definitely be doable.

Last edited by nadiatims (2013 November 18, 9:03 am)

ok then. Its been a long time since i've looked at any of these tests.
so n3 is like 2kyuu then? if so i agree that would be impossible. *maybe* listening would be possible but it's a big maybe.

I guess i was reacting to the word impossible being used in connection with what i perceived as lower grade jlpt tests. The lower levels are much much easier.The difficulty ramps up exponentially. ie. 1kyuu is way  harder than 2 is way way harder than 3 or at least this was my experience.

RawToast wrote:

His listening might end up at N2/N3 level and it would be interesting to see him try just the listening section of the online sample test.

Sorry nowhere close.

He is making good progress and its probably inline with what I'd expect from anyone who studies Japanese full time for a couple of months.

I think the people who think its "amazing" are people who don't speak any Japanese anyway so can't understand anything, and also those who just have never put in the hours that he does so don't realise how much a person can improve in a short time. There is no magic here though and no special trick or method.

Which is okay. If his goal is N2 listening / speaking it would definitely be considered a fail, because I doubt he could reach N3 in his 3 months either. N4 listening level he'll probably achieve though.

I think a better test would be to have a Japanese person (not one of his choosing) interview him then assess his level, a two-way conversation. That would be a better test of his ability, can he understand what the person is saying and not just talk about himself but elaborate on a variety of subjects?

JunePin wrote:

I think a better test would be to have a Japanese person (not one of his choosing) interview him then assess his level, a two-way conversation. That would be a better test of his ability, can he understand what the person is saying and not just talk about himself but elaborate on a variety of subjects?

If you can find one who is willing to do that, and is familiar with those European fluency tests... I would certainly like to see the results... I wish he'd do something about his accent, but maybe he can't really hear how strange he sounds?