mr_hans_moleman wrote:

I wanted to be as accurate as possible. But as you can see for yourself, that is quite impossible.

Tzadeck wrote:

your original post is misleading.  Obvious lie is still obvious.

In this thread, I've read a lot of things that seem quite impossible, but to say that you took between 2 years, 4 months and uh, 4 years, 4 months to pass the N1 . . . no, being accurate doesn't seem impossible. 

You've also said that "passing N1 is not that hard" and that you slept during the test, and that you took the test in Japan.  May I ask where and when?  Sorry if I'm being overly "accurate."

I think a lot of people here put a lot of effort into their japanese study, so there is an often missed truth floating behind these language forum stories by people who show up and say they did N1 in whatever months and became native-like at whatever years.

my question to these people that have sacrificed everything to speak japanese so quickly is...:
"do you have anything interesting to say?"

no matter how hard a language is, it is just a medium for communication. if you have given up a real skill / career / passion in order to learn Japanese... these are the things that make you unique as a person, and it seems bass-ackwards in my opinion.

this is the reason language majors in college always puzzled me. I just wonder if Mr. Moleman here can hold a conversation about something non-language related... when his last date was... how funny are his jokes?

These people are like empty shells of people...with good japanese.

Last edited by dtcamero (2013 October 14, 9:42 am)

dareka wrote:

I don't think 1-2 years to get a passing grade in n1 is that unbelievable if you really are consistent at it instead of just talking about studying. N1 is not that hard, it's just a matter of knowing enough of the content (especially vocabulary) and being able to read quickly. I failed by 2 points after 2 years of moderate studying and performing badly on the day. I would almost certainly pass now but I honestly don't see any value in the test any more now I'm beyond that level. N1 is no where near the end goal level. I'd say 2-3 years for n1 is a nice realistic goal to shoot for.

Pretty much the same. Passed level 2 (the old one) in a year and failed N1 by 7 points after 2 years of study. I had a terrible cold and had to go to the toilet (which wasn't officially allowed so they made me wait for about 10-15 mins... ah...) at the time so... maybe if I didn't have these problems I could have passed it. Or maybe not? Who knows... Anyway, N1 isn't really that hard in my opinion.

dizmox wrote:

I wouldn't confuse language majors with people who do nothing but study their language. Indeed, a lot don't seem to do much studying at all...

You definitely don't need to become an empty husk of a person to pass N1 after 2 years. A few hours a day of intelligent study/practice should suffice.

It's actually funny cause I find that most people around me can't really talk about anything else except the things they are interested in. I've never really met a true language geek though.

I took the test on July 4, 2010 at Saitama University.

Yes, I studied a lot. Like I said before, I did not have to study the previous JLPT tests. I tried doing one of the sample tests and found it quite easy, so I dropped my pencil halfway through it and decided that I was very much ready for the N1 test.

1 year and something months = 1 year and "16" months = 2 years and 4 months.

I passed the test after studying for 2 years and 4 months. It doesn't necessarily mean that I needed to study for 2 years and 4 months to pass the test. I could have taken the test at my 1 year and 6 month mark and still have passed it. But, who can really know those things? 

"my question to these people that have sacrificed everything to speak japanese so quickly is...: do you have anything interesting to say?"

After you get to a certain level, you can learn things using Japanese as the medium. I learned how to play the piano by searching for tutorials in Japanese. I would look up recipes in Japanese.

I think we all have something interesting to say. We just have to talk about our life experiences, our happy moments and those moments that make us cringe. I'm not good at telling jokes but I can spin on my head

I have never taken a single class in Japanese. I learned it all by myself. I could have expedited the process if I had some guidance.Yes, I had to sacrifice a lot of time to learn Japanese but a whole new world opened up to me as result.

When was my last date?
That's all I did when I was in Japan.
If you are a single lady, pretty and looking, then let's have a SKYPE date. lol
Just don't tell my girlfriend.

Devoting yourself to your studies doesn't mean that you'll be a hermit. When I lived in Tokyo, I was talking to everybody(well, just the pretty girls).

If you want to talk more, let's talk in Japanese. I need the practice!

dtcamero wrote:

I think a lot of people here put a lot of effort into their japanese study, so there is an often missed truth floating behind these language forum stories by people who show up and say they did N1 in whatever months and became native-like at whatever years.

my question to these people that have sacrificed everything to speak japanese so quickly is...:
"do you have anything interesting to say?"

no matter how hard a language is, it is just a medium for communication. if you have given up a real skill / career / passion in order to learn Japanese... these are the things that make you unique as a person, and it seems bass-ackwards in my opinion.

this is the reason language majors in college always puzzled me. I just wonder if Mr. Moleman here can hold a conversation about something non-language related... when his last date was... how funny are his jokes?

These people are like empty shells of people...with good japanese.

Most literature is translated (since unless you're a total bore you're unlikely to stick to literature from your own country), and people who dedicate themselves to language study are the ones who make that possible. Not to mention all the other forms of media. What would the news be if we wouldn't have people from around the world translating it from one place to the other? And no, an average speaker can't properly do translation, no matter how much he fools himself.

Interpreting has always been vital for international diplomacy, and is a job that's been around for millenia.

Not to mention that the act of learning itself is a fascinating topic, and people discuss it endlessly. All you need is the right audience.

Oh, and the language trivia and jokes? Seriously? Do you have any idea how much people laugh when I tell them words like ふとい。すごい。くる。かかる。ふうとう etc? (hint: they sound damned dirty in Romanian). My former roommate still knows how to say その口じゃない、テンタックルさん。My random phrases in various languages are a hit .

Not to mention the access you get to its culture. Sure, you can learn a lot about a culture without knowing the terms, but good luck memorizing names and items without knowing it. Most people I know who read about Japanese culture can't remember names for the life of them.

And that's setting aside the fact that language majors usually also study linguistics, literature, philology, etc. It does depend on the program, though.

Also, most people don't have anything interesting to say; most conversations are small talk and are ultimately meaningless, if not boring. more often than not you're likely to talk to someone infuriating than fascinating. There's a reason why the word "average" exists.

dtcamero wrote:

I think a lot of people here put a lot of effort into their japanese study, so there is an often missed truth floating behind these language forum stories by people who show up and say they did N1 in whatever months and became native-like at whatever years.

my question to these people that have sacrificed everything to speak japanese so quickly is...:
"do you have anything interesting to say?"

no matter how hard a language is, it is just a medium for communication. if you have given up a real skill / career / passion in order to learn Japanese... these are the things that make you unique as a person, and it seems bass-ackwards in my opinion.

this is the reason language majors in college always puzzled me. I just wonder if Mr. Moleman here can hold a conversation about something non-language related... when his last date was... how funny are his jokes?

These people are like empty shells of people...with good japanese.

I disagree you need to give up your life to learn Japanese fast.

I've done Japanese every day for about 19 months (first 3 months it wasn't every day, last 440 days or so has been), while simultaneously doing a medicine degree, a part time job and still able to socialise with friends on weekends and such.  My Japanese is a little below N1 level marginally, in more concrete terms I'm level 44 on the JALUP level test (the owner predicts level 50 is N1 roughly).  I should be N1 ability by mid-late December, but it's not my final goal (I don't bother with JLPT).

Sure 19 months isn't the fastest ever, but I think it's a pretty solid pace given the other things I have on.

You don't need to give up everything just to learn a language fast.  You just need to be good with time management, very motivated, be honest with yourself about what you can and can't do, and be able to recognise the deficits in your ability and work on them.

Last edited by AKITOD (2013 October 15, 1:54 am)

dtcamero wrote:

AKITOD wrote:

Sure 19 months isn't the fastest ever, but I think it's a pretty solid pace given the other things I have on.

wow this forum is full of khatzumotos who self-studied to N1 in a year and change... amazing!

Yeah- maybe we should do what those guys are doing. They seem to be succeeding.
Or ridicule them. Y'know, whatever seems the most reasonable.

dtcamero wrote:

zgarbas wrote:

Also, most people don't have anything interesting to say; most conversations are small talk and are ultimately meaningless, if not boring. more often than not you're likely to talk to someone infuriating than fascinating. There's a reason why the word "average" exists.

I like this answer... that these people would probably have been boring anyway, even without ignoring everything to study.

I'm going to pretend that you didn't just think of this after reading Zgarbas' post. But hey- at least the people who have made language learning their passion have SOMETHING to talk about. Their passion just happens to be language learning. It's like people who major in Philosophy so they can go.. teach Philosophy. At least they've got something!

drdunlap wrote:

dtcamero wrote:

AKITOD wrote:

Sure 19 months isn't the fastest ever, but I think it's a pretty solid pace given the other things I have on.

wow this forum is full of khatzumotos who self-studied to N1 in a year and change... amazing!

Yeah- maybe we should do what those guys are doing. They seem to be succeeding.
Or ridicule them. Y'know, whatever seems the most reasonable.

Definitely the ridiculing...

Some people just have a knack for languages, others don't.  Whatevs ^_^

drdunlap wrote:

2 - 3 year time frame for Englishy peoples? 8)

It's reasonably possible.  I think the average is more like 6 or 7, but 2-3 is probably possible for people with good study skills.

I can still think of a million reasons why I'm initially skeptical of any claim for under two years though.  One example that pops up to me is a friend of mine I worked with for a year at a not-so-busy school in the inaka.  He was a smart guy, and was much more persistent at studying than I am.  He was engaged at the time, and was really into business, so he wanted to get a business-y job in Japan to start a family here, so he figured he needed to study Japanese hard.  He studied his ass off, and I saw him do it for hours and hours at work every day, but he ended up failing JLPT 2 pretty miserably at the end of 2 years.  He's taking it again this winter, at the two and a half year mark.

Or, even to take my own example, it took me two years to go from N2 to N1.  I'm not the best studier for that kind of thing--my specialty in learning is definitely not memorizing and that kind of stuff.  I'm more of a concept guy.  And I wasn't really good at doing anki to the extent that I did it.  But I really studied regularly for those two years, and pretty seriously and intensely for certain stretches, and it still took two years.

There's really no end to the examples since I've seen so many learners in so many different situations (simply because I've lived in Japan for so long).  And though I've known dozens or perhaps hundreds of learners, I really can't think of any native English speakers who did N1 in even three years.

Last edited by Tzadeck (2013 October 15, 6:39 am)

Tzadeck wrote:

I can still think of a million reasons why I'm initially skeptical of any claim for under two years though.  One example that pops up to me is a friend of mine I worked with for a year at a not-so-busy school in the inaka.  He was a smart guy, and was much more persistent at studying than I am.  He was engaged at the time, and was really into business, so he wanted to get a business-y job in Japan to start a family here, so he figured he needed to study Japanese hard.  He studied his ass off, and I saw him do it for hours and hours at work every day, but he ended up failing JLPT 2 pretty miserably at the end of 2 years.  He's taking it again this winter, at the two and a half year mark.

There is a difference between studying hard, and studying smart though...

Tzadeck wrote:

drdunlap wrote:

2 - 3 year time frame for Englishy peoples? 8)

It's reasonably possible.  I think the average is more like 6 or 7, but 2-3 is probably possible for people with good study skills.

I can still think of a million reasons why I'm initially skeptical of any claim for under two years though.  One example that pops up to me is a friend of mine I worked with for a year at a not-so-busy school in the inaka.  He was a smart guy, and was much more persistent at studying than I am.  He was engaged at the time, and was really into business, so he wanted to get a business-y job in Japan to start a family here, so he figured he needed to study Japanese hard.  He studied his ass off, and I saw him do it for hours and hours at work every day, but he ended up failing JLPT 2 pretty miserably at the end of 2 years.  He's taking it again this winter, at the two and a half year mark.

Or, even to take my own example, it took me two years to go from N2 to N1.  I'm not the best studier for that kind of thing--my specialty in learning is definitely not memorizing and that kind of stuff.  I'm more of a concept guy.  And I wasn't really good at doing anki to the extent that I did it.  But I really studied regularly for those two years, and pretty seriously and intensely for certain stretches, and it still took two years.

There's really no end to the examples since I've seen so many learners in so many different situations (simply because I've lived in Japan for so long).  And though I've known dozens or perhaps hundreds of learners, I really can't think of any native English speakers who did N1 in even three years.

That is anecdote and incredulity, though. I can come up with a million reasons as to be skeptical not to belief the claim that person X achieved Y in time-frame Z, but without anything objective, it still boils down to failing to accept that the situation can occur.

There is nothing inherently irrational with that, though it does steep into pointless emotionalism if I were to step beyond the demand for evidence for making positive claims such as calling someone an obvious liar, when all I have to base my opinion on is "well I've never really seen it happen and cannot accept it so you are obviously making stuff up or being dishonest." 

As soon as you start making and confusing your own personal experience as being objective data, and using that to make positive assertions, the burden or proof begins to shift.

There is large logical distinction between stating "I do not have the reason to justify acceptance/belief in X as a true/accurate claim" and actively stating "X is false".


Edit: sorry, forgot to use quotations.

Last edited by uisukii (2013 October 15, 7:01 am)

drdunlap wrote:

I got 169 out of 180 points on the N1 in under three years.

I believe you, and good job.  I'm just skeptical of claims of doing it very quickly, it's not that I never believe them.  You come off as reasonable and honest, Moleman does not.

Tzadeck wrote:

uisukii, I still don't care about this argument.

I don't care if you don't care. It is a valid argument which highlights that you seem to be reacting in an emotional manner, arrogantly ignoring any reasons which do not fit your desired way of thought.


As long as you remain content in disregarding others and reacting personally to achievements of others, it will remain relevant. You aren't an expert on other people's learning experience. Something a lot of people on online forums seem to forget. Whether or not you think that drdunlap comes off as more reasonable as mr_hans_moleman is entirely irrelevant. The point is that they both put in the hard work and achieved something which many take years longer to do.


Avoiding something doesn't invalidate it.

Edit: Webgator Hosting ate the post.

Last edited by uisukii (2013 October 15, 7:23 am)