Anki - when to stop English > Japanese cards?

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Reply #1 - 2013 July 20, 12:10 pm
KanjiMood Member
Registered: 2009-04-06 Posts: 132

So recently I've been SRSing Japanesepod101 dialog (which is working great for me). I use audacity to quickly cut out the audio, and add English > Japanese cards on what I think is appropriate. But as I'm progressing (currently got about 300 cards) I'm wondering when I should stop doing English > Japanese and begin making them as Kanji > Kana (or Kana > Kanji? not sure which is best) cards instead.

I only ask because I recently started seeing more words like 自動販売機 and 公衆電話..

I'm also doing core6k, but it's a lot less interesting than the above deck IMO..

Thanks for any suggestions! smile

Reply #2 - 2013 July 20, 2:26 pm
ryuudou Member
Registered: 2009-03-05 Posts: 406

English > Japanese cards were never advised at any point actually.

Even "J-E" (the stage before J-J) cards are Kana -> Kanji or Kanji -> Kana with supplemental English on the back, so ideally as soon as possible. You don't need Japanese knowledge to do Kanji -> Kana, because you will have English along with the reading.

Reply #3 - 2013 July 21, 7:19 am
uisukii Guest

ryuudou wrote:

English > Japanese cards were never advised at any point actually.

Would you mind further explaining this comment? I'm not really sure who is being inferred here. That is ask: which authority are you referring in respect to advisement?

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Reply #4 - 2013 July 21, 7:35 am
RawToast お巡りさん
From: UK Registered: 2012-09-03 Posts: 431 Website

uisukii wrote:

ryuudou wrote:

English > Japanese cards were never advised at any point actually.

Would you mind further explaining this comment? I'm not really sure who is being inferred here. That is ask: which authority are you referring in respect to advisement?

I reckon it may be either:

* Nukemarine's guide. The "Core 2k/6k Optimized Japanese Vocabulary" deck recommended on Ankiweb is English -> Japanese with a closed sentence.
* Just the way the Anki deck was downloaded. Some Core come with both Production and Recognition card types.

Read that completely wrong... silly me.

Reply #5 - 2013 July 21, 10:24 am
Stansfield123 Member
From: Europe Registered: 2011-04-17 Posts: 799

Now.

Reply #6 - 2013 July 21, 1:29 pm
KanjiMood Member
Registered: 2009-04-06 Posts: 132

Good points. Perhaps I enjoyed the challenge of translating English sentences into Japanese while trying also to get the context right. But now that I think about it, Kanji > Kana would get me to the same goal quicker (thinking in the language).

Are there any other types of cards I can apply to this japanesepod101 deck? Or is Kanji > Kana the best? I haven't done much experimentation with multiple card types..

Reply #7 - 2013 July 21, 9:18 pm
SomeCallMeChris Member
From: Massachusetts USA Registered: 2011-08-01 Posts: 787

I don't see anything wrong with doing English->Japanese cards as long as they are working for you, but I would also to Japanese->English cards.

The reason people don't generally do English->Japanese is just that it takes effort to create cards where there's only one correct answer, and as your vocabulary grows and you learn more synonyms the problem becomes worse. So basically... you should stop doing E->J when you start having trouble answering because you know there's more than one right answer.

However, if you don't -also- do Kanji->reading+meaning, then you won't be testing what you need to know to actually read.


Also, let's -not- discuss the source of ryuudou's advice, we don't need another flamewar.

Reply #8 - 2013 July 22, 8:59 am
KanjiMood Member
Registered: 2009-04-06 Posts: 132

Yep, I'm definitely at that point. While I think English > Japanese is definitely effective at some stage, it's far too slow when your trying to recall a particular sentence, seeing the Kanji will speed up what I'm actually testing myself on.

Reply #9 - 2013 July 22, 8:07 pm
arnaldosfjunior Member
Registered: 2011-03-05 Posts: 121 Website

今でしょ！

Reply #10 - 2013 July 23, 5:16 am
NightSky Member
From: Japan Registered: 2008-04-13 Posts: 302

The worst mistake I ever made in studying Japanese was having E -> J cards from the beginning. Its only 6 months since I suspended all of them (more than 10,000 of them...) and the difference has been light and day.

So I'd recommend stopping as soon as possible and only doing J -> E (or J->J if you really prefer).

Reply #11 - 2013 July 23, 6:13 am
RawToast お巡りさん
From: UK Registered: 2012-09-03 Posts: 431 Website

SomeCallMeChris wrote:

I don't see anything wrong with doing English->Japanese cards as long as they are working for you, but I would also to Japanese->English cards.

The reason people don't generally do English->Japanese is just that it takes effort to create cards where there's only one correct answer, and as your vocabulary grows and you learn more synonyms the problem becomes worse. So basically... you should stop doing E->J when you start having trouble answering because you know there's more than one right answer.

I agree, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with notion of doing E -> J production cards alongside J -> E. They are definitely not mainstream around here though...

The single answer card can be difficult to create, but it's pretty simple to use a core deck and add an extra field and add any info you need (or just add the English sentence) as you go along. I know the pain of knowing more than one answer from iknow!

Production is also 'slower' than recognition -- especially written production, so it takes longer to complete the core deck. Some may see this as a waste of time in comparison to pure recognition.

I've changed from just one recognition card to 3 card types per fact, one of which is English production to reading. Personally, I found this helps my comprehension which I found was also the case when using iknow (which features production). You do end up with more reviews, but you can always up the review rate to compensate a little -- mine went from 100 to ~200.

Still you have to experiment with your cards and see what works best for you.

Reply #12 - 2013 July 23, 7:14 am
KanjiMood Member
Registered: 2009-04-06 Posts: 132

Rawtoast: I've change my card deck template to show the Kanji on the front. I got through my reviews much quicker without too much trouble (76 cards in 24 minutes - I just made sure I can say each sentence within a reasonable speed). So I'm happy with that.

Though of course some Kanji word compounds I recognize only by the fact that it's in particular sentence, rather than actually remembering it. I think there was another topic recently about this, but what was the overall conclusion reached? Should I also be adding a kana to kanji card type or will I eventually it learn by osmosis? I find that when talking to Japanese people through instant messaging I can easily read or skim what they're saying 80% of the time as they use a lot of the same words, though the conversation may not be too deep! Will just using these new words in conversation cement the knowledge (i,e, only remember what I need)?

Thanks.

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