I need advice for learning method that emphasizes reading

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Reply #1 - 2013 July 11, 12:30 am
vecciora New member
From: Jakarta Registered: 2012-08-24 Posts: 4

I want to be able to read Japanese fluently ASAP. I know some learning method like AJATT's method of sentence mining, RTK, and so on. But, I don't know how to put them together so I could read Japanese written materials (articles, manga, games, etc.) fluently ASAP.

Give me some advice, please.

Thank you.

** Sorry for my poor English. Just for this, I took a long time because I need to read references while writing.

Reply #2 - 2013 July 11, 12:42 am
SomeCallMeChris Member
From: Massachusetts USA Registered: 2011-08-01 Posts: 787

Maybe you want the L-R method (listening & reading method).
Start here and follow links, http://forum.koohii.com/viewtopic.php?id=7082

Reply #3 - 2013 July 11, 1:29 am
vecciora New member
From: Jakarta Registered: 2012-08-24 Posts: 4

SomeCallMeChris wrote:

Maybe you want the L-R method (listening & reading method).
Start here and follow links, http://forum.koohii.com/viewtopic.php?id=7082

That list is overwhelming. To be honest I don't understand at all the page you gave to me.

Could you tell me how to get that L-R method?

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Reply #4 - 2013 July 11, 2:00 am
uisukii Guest

Try reading through this:
http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_ … ssages.htm

You'll have to understand that this method is a guide the author put together as a systematical process which worked for her. It is not a guarantee to work for everyone (no such thing exists in learning... anything). If you're not in love with the language, you're wasting your time.

To quote the author: "LOVE IS A MAGIC LAMP."

Reply #5 - 2013 July 11, 5:03 am
Savii Member
From: Netherlands Registered: 2012-08-13 Posts: 107

I had pretty much the same goal (heavy focus on reading), but pure immersion (AJATT etc.) and L-R didn't appeal to me, so here's an alternative. I used these methods in parallel in order to get started with "real reading" asap:

- For kanji: RTK1 (5th edition without supplement; the new kanji in the 6th edition aren't worth your time in this phase), reviewing with anki and utilizing story ideas from this site. Create a schedule and try to stick with it, but don't overdo it (reviews will crush you sooner or later if you learn too much new ones) and adjust when necessary. Keep in mind that it's okay to do RTK over a longer period if you're covering other areas of Japanese at the same time. If you want to scrap some more kanji in order to get to the finish line faster you can try this selection (has some other nice features as well). RTK1 is by far not enough for reading real Japanese, but there's plenty of time to gradually learn more once a solid base is in place. Oh, by the way, before even thinking about kanji, start with kana right now if you haven't already and practice every day. It's important to get comfortable with them as soon as possible. Avoid romaji as much as you reasonably can.

- For grammar: Japanese The Manga Way, supplemented by Tae Kim and/or Imabi for when you need explanations from another angle. Looking back, A Dictionary Of Basic Japanese Grammar would probably have been very useful too. You can get the Dictionary (and tons of native reading material as well) pretty cheap at honto.jp, they ship internationally.

- For vocab: Core 2k to build a basic vocabulary to get started, and when the time is right, (gradually or suddenly) switch to SRSing vocab/sentences based on what you actually encounter when reading.

- For reference and quick review: NihonShock Cheat Sheet Pack and a list of common onomatopoeia (I think NihonShock made one recently, sold separately from the cheatsheets).

- For practice: spend some time finding reading material with a good balance between difficulty (though keep in mind that as a beginner there's no such thing as native materials that 'match' your level, everything will be hard, but you can aim to get as close as possible) and enjoyment. Sometimes one of these factors can compensate the other in either direction. Try reading often and as much as you can but take care not to be discouraged by the overwhelming amount of things you don't understand. Use technology (examples: smartphone dictionary, KanjiTomo OCR for manga scans, Rikaichan for websites) to aid your reading comprehension.

One more thing, this has already been said thousand of times but it can't be stressed enough: consistency, time investment and dedication are the keys to success.

vecciora wrote:

** Sorry for my poor English. Just for this, I took a long time because I need to read references while writing.

If you're not very comfortable with reading English that would be a bit of a handicap, since pretty much all great dictionaries, grammar explanations, references and other resources are in English. It's still perfectly doable, but you'll probably have to be a bit more patient and dedicate some of your time and effort to dealing with the English in your study. It will take longer but your English will probably improve considerably as well, which would be an awesome bonus.

Last edited by Savii (2013 July 11, 7:45 am)

Reply #6 - 2013 July 11, 6:26 am
Inny Jan Member
From: Cichy Kącik Registered: 2010-03-09 Posts: 720

Savii wrote:

[...]
- For kanji: RTK1 (5th edition without supplement; the new kanji in the 6th edition aren't worth your time in this phase), reviewing with anki and utilizing story ideas from this site.[...]

If the OP has difficulties with English then RTK is going to be a hurdle (thinking of yonder, sultry, vermilion and others) unless they have keywords in their native language.

Otherwise, your advice seems to be quite balanced. I would estimate that in terms of the time, it can take 2-4 years of dedicated (2-3 hours a day) study to reach the point where you could claim being fluent in reading. Hardly ASAP (ie. usually, when people say "ASAP", they mean "now"...).

Reply #7 - 2013 July 11, 7:16 am
PotbellyPig Member
From: New York Registered: 2012-01-29 Posts: 337

First read through the sticky "Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners".  You can follow it and just leave the subs2srs part for later.

Reply #8 - 2013 July 11, 8:42 am
Stansfield123 Member
From: Europe Registered: 2011-04-17 Posts: 799

Unless you already speak Japanese, I recommend starting with RtK. Once you're done, you should do some grammar and basic vocab (I did Tae Kim and about 1000 sentences in Anki), and then get right into reading. The thread linked to above is an excellent resource. There are however others (like the "innocent books" thread - go straight to the last few pages).

And then there's this: http://rtkwiki.koohii.com/wiki/Audiobooks

It's a much better organized list of audiobooks with transcripts and translations, a lot of th
em with ready made parallel text.

You should just pick a title you like, and work your way through it (with Rikaisama). When you pick, I'd worry more about picking something you like, than difficulty level.
As far as how to do it, there are as many opinions as there are people making recommendations, so you'll just have to decide what works as you go.

Last edited by Stansfield123 (2013 July 11, 8:45 am)

Reply #9 - 2013 July 15, 10:46 am
MelonBerry Member
From: United States Registered: 2011-12-04 Posts: 74

Stansfield123 wrote:

Unless you already speak Japanese, I recommend starting with RtK. Once you're done, you should do some grammar and basic vocab (I did Tae Kim and about 1000 sentences in Anki), and then get right into reading. The thread linked to above is an excellent resource. There are however others (like the "innocent books" thread - go straight to the last few pages).

And then there's this: http://rtkwiki.koohii.com/wiki/Audiobooks

It's a much better organized list of audiobooks with transcripts and translations, a lot of th
em with ready made parallel text.

You should just pick a title you like, and work your way through it (with Rikaisama). When you pick, I'd worry more about picking something you like, than difficulty level.
As far as how to do it, there are as many opinions as there are people making recommendations, so you'll just have to decide what works as you go.

Do you know any other sites to get these? The Alice in Wonderland links are all broken.

Reply #10 - 2013 July 15, 11:24 am
buonaparte Member
Registered: 2010-11-25 Posts: 796

MelonBerry wrote:

The Alice in Wonderland links are all broken.

http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_mountain/!L-R/
Carroll - FushigiNoKuniNoArisu awatalk.7z

Reply #11 - 2013 July 15, 11:54 am
MelonBerry Member
From: United States Registered: 2011-12-04 Posts: 74

buonaparte wrote:

MelonBerry wrote:

The Alice in Wonderland links are all broken.

http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_mountain/!L-R/
Carroll - FushigiNoKuniNoArisu awatalk.7z

Thank you very much.

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